Changes to WHS in April 2024

[AussieKB]

How many years were put into this and they are still making changes ?
that a lot of golfers are not happy about, but hey just follow the US
because they control Golf, or think they do.

 

[Swango1980]

How many years were put into this and they are still making changes ?
that a lot of golfers are not happy about, but hey just follow the US
because they control Golf, or think they do.

They made changes to the last system for decades. The Rules of Golf get adjustments every few years.

Things evolve.

 

[Voyager EMH]

No rounding of CH until after PH % is applied.

I think that I'm repeating myself, sorry.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

How many years were put into this and they are still making changes ?
that a lot of golfers are not happy about, but hey just follow the US
because they control Golf, or think they do.

Is it a lot? Or just a vocal minority?

 

[wjemather]

How many years were put into this and they are still making changes ?
that a lot of golfers are not happy about, but hey just follow the US
because they control Golf, or think they do.

How can we be following the US, when other parts of the world had many features of WHS first?

Many prominent WHS features were lifted straight from the GA system, and a few from CONGU. Pre-WHS, only Australia used 8 from 20 (the USGA system was 10 from 20), almost everywhere but the US used nett double bogey adjustments (the USGA system had equitable stroke control), the USGA system didn't use CR-Par, the method adopted by GB&I for 4BBB scores follows the Australian one (not MLS, as used in the US), the US are also following in scaling up 9-hole and 10-13 hole scores, etc., etc.

 

[D-S]

I have a question re acceptable 4BB scores. The note says that the golfer (not bothered golfers) who has at least 9 scores wil have their unplayed holes upscaled to an 18 hole score based on their partners score.
Very often in 4BB there will be more than 9 scores recorded by each player, so, if they have scores more than 42 points, will both their scores be upscaled based on the other players scores?

For example if both players record 10 scores (on different holes, so the pair complete 18 holes) and they are both 5x3points and 5x2 points then do not record scores for the other 8 do they get a score of 25 points for their 10 actual holes plus 4x3 points and 4x2 points = 20 points for the unplayed holes and therefore have a score of 45 points put on their record?
However If they record 8 double bogeys on the 8 holes rather than not recording a score on these holes then they will only have a score of 25 points which will not be put as one of their 20?

 

[Genu9]

Using Un-rounded Course Handicap™ calculation where computer precision is used

I'm glad they quantify this as "where computer precision is used". Imagine standing on the tee working out 95% or 85% of 10.7 otherwise you'd need to use one wall of the clubhouse for the 'boards'.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Unrounded course handicaps available here (with or without CR-Par at the moment)

Course Handicap Calculator

The R&A seeks to engage in and support activities for the benefit of the sport of golf from The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews.

www.randa.org

On the first tee, I would just need to type the unrounded CH into my 1977 Casio Fx29 and multiply by 0.95 etc.
Doing it 4 times for a 2v2 betterball match (multiply by 0.9) would be a very enjoyable start to the game.
Really looking forward to April.
Must remember to put fresh Duracells in the Casio in March.
Its all about "machine precision" you see.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Unrounded course handicaps available here (with or without CR-Par at the moment)

Course Handicap Calculator

The R&A seeks to engage in and support activities for the benefit of the sport of golf from The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews.

www.randa.org

On the first tee, I would just need to type the unrounded CH into my 1977 Casio Fx29 and multiply by 0.95 etc.
Doing it 4 times for a 2v2 betterball match (multiply by 0.9) would be a very enjoyable start to the game.
Really looking forward to April.
Must remember to put fresh Duracells in the Casio in March.
Its all about "machine precision" you see.

Just use you phone

 

[AussieKB]

How can we be following the US, when other parts of the world had many features of WHS first?

Many prominent WHS features were lifted straight from the GA system, and a few from CONGU. Pre-WHS, only Australia used 8 from 20 (the USGA system was 10 from 20), almost everywhere but the US used nett double bogey adjustments (the USGA system had equitable stroke control), the USGA system didn't use CR-Par, the method adopted by GB&I for 4BBB scores follows the Australian one (not MLS, as used in the US), the US are also following in scaling up 9-hole and 10-13 hole scores, etc., etc.

Lost in all that is that it's the WORLD Handicapping System.......I think not.

 

[wjemather]

I have a question re acceptable 4BB scores. The note says that the golfer (not bothered golfers) who has at least 9 scores wil have their unplayed holes upscaled to an 18 hole score based on their partners score.
Very often in 4BB there will be more than 9 scores recorded by each player, so, if they have scores more than 42 points, will both their scores be upscaled based on the other players scores?

For example if both players record 10 scores (on different holes, so the pair complete 18 holes) and they are both 5x3points and 5x2 points then do not record scores for the other 8 do they get a score of 25 points for their 10 actual holes plus 4x3 points and 4x2 points = 20 points for the unplayed holes and therefore have a score of 45 points put on their record?
However If they record 8 double bogeys on the 8 holes rather than not recording a score on these holes then they will only have a score of 25 points which will not be put as one of their 20?

The directive in Australia is for only the counting score to be recorded (i.e. the first ball holed for that score); CONGU's guidance is similar, with scores potentially being disregarded for handicapping otherwise - recording nett double bogey for pick-up holes where the partner has scored will not be acceptable.

Details will follow but unrecorded hole scores will be based on the partner's score for those holes, so I expect the scaling up to be the same (or very similar) to the Australian method.

It should also be noted that the start date for acceptable 4BBB scores may slide as it is dependent on the software being ready.

 

[wjemather]

Lost in all that is that it's the WORLD Handicapping System.......I think not.

Because it is a world system, you can compete equitably against players from and in other jurisdictions.

 

[wjemather]

I'm glad they quantify this as "where computer precision is used". Imagine standing on the tee working out 95% or 85% of 10.7 otherwise you'd need to use one wall of the clubhouse for the 'boards'.

On the first tee, I would just need to type the unrounded CH into my 1977 Casio Fx29 and multiply by 0.95 etc.
Doing it 4 times for a 2v2 betterball match (multiply by 0.9) would be a very enjoyable start to the game.
Really looking forward to April.
Must remember to put fresh Duracells in the Casio in March.
Its all about "machine precision" you see.

Use of the unrounded CH will only apply to situations where the PH calculations are performed by software, not the individual (even if they have a calculator).

 

[Swango1980]

Lost in all that is that it's the WORLD Handicapping System.......I think not.

I get that people will have their own opinions on what they like, and what they don't like. Fair do's.

But I don't get this argument that is is NOT a World system. If people genuinely believe this, it sounds to me like they are simply in denial. It is something they keep telling themselves to provide them comfort when criticising some of the specifics, when I don't think there is any need when it still seems fair to argue for or against any of the regional aspects to it.

Of course it is a World system. I have a handicap index. If I go to anywhere else in the World that uses WHS, then I use that exact Index to determine what handicap I'll be playing off. Just because that calculation may be different in various regions, my Index is still applicable. And when I submit a score in other parts of the world, that can be fed into my record and my Index kept up to date.

I suppose the only technical argument that it is not a World system is that it isn't used in every corner of the globe. Having a look at the list, I don't think they have WHS in Burundi, Eritrea, Djibouti, Palau, Kiribati, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, North Korea, China, Cambodia, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan , East Timor, Central African Republic, Somalia, South Sudan, etc. So, if that was people's thinking behind saying it wasn't a World system, then I'd agree with that technicality, but obviously that isn't the reasoning that is being made

 

[NearHull]

Use of the unrounded CH will only apply to situations where the PH calculations are performed by software, not the individual (even if they have a calculator).

I’m not sure that is correct. The County briefings should clarify.

 

[Swango1980]

I’m not sure that is correct. The County briefings should clarify.

The England Golf document said:

"A course handicap is the number of shots the golfer receives for the tee set they are going to play. Currently in England, Wales and Ireland this value is calculated to a decimal and then rounded for the golfer, which is the value they use when playing golf (both general play and competition golf).

Under the 2024 WHS rules of handicapping update this will remain unchanged, only if there is a lack of “machine precision” for calculation purposes.

Where there is an ability to use “machine precision” calculation by using ISV software or My EG app etc. the Playing Handicap™ calculation will change to “unrounded”. The unrounded value is carried forward to then calculate the Playing Handicap™, the Playing Handicap™ would then be rounded to a whole number.

*Machine Precision – utilising the computer software to ensure the accuracy of the calculations."

 

[D-S]

The directive in Australia is for only the counting score to be recorded (i.e. the first ball holed for that score); CONGU's guidance is similar, with scores potentially being disregarded for handicapping otherwise - recording nett double bogey for pick-up holes where the partner has scored will not be acceptable.

Details will follow but unrecorded hole scores will be based on the partner's score for those holes, so I expect the scaling up to be the same (or very similar) to the Australian method.

It should also be noted that the start date for acceptable 4BBB scores may slide as it is dependent on the software being ready.

The software will need to be changed as, at the moment, on IG in team events you have to enter a score against every hole for every player, which is a bit of a pain.

 

[D-S]

I’m not sure that is correct. The County briefings should clarify.

Only if the County gets more information separately from the clubs which isn't the case so far.

 

[wjemather]

The software will need to be changed as, at the moment, on IG in team events you have to enter a score against every hole for every player, which is a bit of a pain.

The guidance only mentions the WHS Platform, but presumably there will also be some work on the ISV side.
However, I assume "0"s should be entered for non-counting hole scores, which are then treated as no score recorded (started but not finished) and replaced by the WHS Platform according to the partner's score, when the criteria are met for generating a score differential.

 

[D-S]

The guidance only mentions the WHS Platform, but presumably there will also be some work on the ISV side.
However, I assume "0"s should be entered for non-counting hole scores, which are then treated as no score recorded (started but not finished) and replaced by the WHS Platform according to the partner's score, when the criteria are met for generating a score differential.

So what would happen if for player A a score of 1 point is recorded and for player B a score of 3 points is recorded? - would (if the other criteria are met) the 1 point be replaced by the 3 points by the other player? (which I assume is what must happen under the only 1 score to be recorded system you describe in Australia)