Calculating shots in 4BBB Matchplay from 1st April 2024

wjemather

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I don't know why the USGA table would show and use all those insignificant numbers after the first two or three. They mean nothing given that the starting point (differentials) and handicap index only have three significant numbers. And I'm sure the final answer wouldn't be any different. The machine does not measure anything and hence "machine precision" is irrelevant.
It gives the impression of a degree of accuracy that is actually impossible with handicapping.
 

3offTheTee

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1.Going back to post 11 would somebody in authority, preferably WJE Mather please confirm that this is the way for working out 4BBB Matchplay from 1/4/24. I understand the lowest goes to 0.

2. Not interested in Mixed. In 4BBB stroke play Stableford, I know they are the same, once the "new method" for Course Handicap has been calculated is the allowance still 85%?

3. Is there anything else I need to know re the above 2 ONLY?

Please make it simple.

TIA
 

wjemather

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1.Going back to post 11 would somebody in authority, preferably WJE Mather please confirm that this is the way for working out 4BBB Matchplay from 1/4/24. I understand the lowest goes to 0.

2. Not interested in Mixed. In 4BBB stroke play Stableford, I know they are the same, once the "new method" for Course Handicap has been calculated is the allowance still 85%?

3. Is there anything else I need to know re the above 2 ONLY?

Please make it simple.

TIA
Yes, post 11 is basically correct (although I would probably explain it slightly differently).
Yes, the Playing Handicap for 4BBB medal and Stableford remains 85%, but from 1st April will be calculated by software using the unrounded Course Handicap.
No.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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We've always had the 90% tables posted on the noticeboards. The change to 90% of the difference means CH tables will now suffice.
I do rather find it baffling that many folks seem incapable of grasping that 90% of a number is simply the number less one tenth of it. And when calculating shots the tenth is simply rounded up or down down before the subtraction. It really could hardly be easier. 85% complicated? It’s a tenth and a half of that again. Add them together and round before subtracting. Ho hum.
 

doublebogey7

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1.Going back to post 11 would somebody in authority, preferably WJE Mather please confirm that this is the way for working out 4BBB Matchplay from 1/4/24. I understand the lowest goes to 0.

2. Not interested in Mixed. In 4BBB stroke play Stableford, I know they are the same, once the "new method" for Course Handicap has been calculated is the allowance still 85%?

3. Is there anything else I need to know re the above 2 ONLY?

Please make it simple.

TIA
1.Yes
2.Essentially yes, but will be 85% of the unrounded CH. Your ISV will do this calulation for you.
3.Don't think so.
 

Swango1980

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I do rather find it baffling that many folks seem incapable of grasping that 90% of a number is simply the number less one tenth of it. And when calculating shots the tenth is simply rounded up or down down before the subtraction. It really could hardly be easier. 85% complicated? It’s a tenth and a half of that again. Add them together and round before subtracting. Ho hum.
That is because you understand basic maths. You'd be surprised to know there are many that don't.

For example, I had a short game group lesson with a pro who asked us to play 10 short game shots from different positions, add up the distance they all were from pin (pacing them out) and working out an average. One of the group of 3 didn't know how to work out the average. He was told to simply divide by 10. He didn't know how. I told him to just shift the decimal point one number to the left. He said if his shots added up to 40 paces, 40 doesn't have a decimal. A week later, I took the mick out of him a bit about not being able to divide by 10, when I was at the bar. The person working at the bar looked on blankly. Turned out they didn't know how to divide by 10 either.

So, next time I see him, I'll ask him to work out 85% of a number and see how that goes :)
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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That is because you understand basic maths. You'd be surprised to know there are many that don't.

For example, I had a short game group lesson with a pro who asked us to play 10 short game shots from different positions, add up the distance they all were from pin (pacing them out) and working out an average. One of the group of 3 didn't know how to work out the average. He was told to simply divide by 10. He didn't know how. I told him to just shift the decimal point one number to the left. He said if his shots added up to 40 paces, 40 doesn't have a decimal. A week later, I took the mick out of him a bit about not being able to divide by 10, when I was at the bar. The person working at the bar looked on blankly. Turned out they didn't know how to divide by 10 either.

So, next time I see him, I'll ask him to work out 85% of a number and see how that goes :)
I guess part of the reason I can do mental arithmetic pretty well goes back to my student days working in pubs when the tills were manual - no computerisation. So manual adding up; subtracting from amount tendered, and change worked out. Though the fact I went on to get my Hons in Maths suggests I was always going to be OK with numbers 🙄

But I do find it rather baffling when grown and intelligent blokes just seem to blank out when asked to do the simple stuff that golf needs. Maybe they just can’t be a***d 🤷‍♂️
 

Genu9

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I guess part of the reason I can do mental arithmetic pretty well goes back to my student days working in pubs when the tills were manual - no computerisation. So manual adding up; subtracting from amount tendered, and change worked out. Though the fact I went on to get my Hons in Maths suggests I was always going to be OK with numbers 🙄

But I do find it rather baffling when grown and intelligent blokes just seem to blank out when asked to do the simple stuff that golf needs. Maybe they just can’t be a***d 🤷‍♂️
Barmaids pre decimalisation were some of the best mathematicians in the country. Add in twelves, then twenties. (1/5d x 5 = ?)
 

LizAig

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I do rather find it baffling that many folks seem incapable of grasping that 90% of a number is simply the number less one tenth of it. And when calculating shots the tenth is simply rounded up or down down before the subtraction. It really could hardly be easier. 85% complicated? It’s a tenth and a half of that again. Add them together and round before subtracting. Ho hum.
You’re baffled that some people aren’t great at maths? I have dyscalculia, the number equivalent of dyslexia, so something simple for you is not simple for me….or many others! I will work out most things but it’s why I’m happy there are tables for the most common comp percentages in our locker room.
 

3offTheTee

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Not matchplay but 4BBB where a qualifying score is possible. Understand 9 times on the card and 42 or better points or equivalent.

This is relevant to Open Comps at other Clubs.

What is the position re 4BBB at my own Club in a Competition which I expect can be qualifying. Also suppose 8 /12 turn up and play a Comp. No gimmees of course?

Thanks
 

D-S

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Not matchplay but 4BBB where a qualifying score is possible. Understand 9 times on the card and 42 or better points or equivalent.

This is relevant to Open Comps at other Clubs.

What is the position re 4BBB at my own Club in a Competition which I expect can be qualifying. Also suppose 8 /12 turn up and play a Comp. No gimmees of course?

Thanks
Needs to be an official club comp, run through your ISV software.
 

backwoodsman

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I'm sure you'd love 5 pints for one pence, (p not d) but it's 7 shillings & a penny. (OR as she'd say, 'That'll be seven and a penny. Luv.'). And you'd get five pence change out of three Half Crowns. Simple. 😇
By my maths, one fifth of a d, times five, still comes to one d :)

(I am old enough to remember using 'old money' (and the associated notation conventions ...) - and yes, I'd certainly like 5 pints for a penny. Not that I can remember that far back ...)
 

Genu9

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By my maths, one fifth of a d, times five, still comes to one d :)

(I am old enough to remember using 'old money' (and the associated notation conventions ...) - and yes, I'd certainly like 5 pints for a penny. Not that I can remember that far back ...)
But it's not one 5th of 10. There were 12d to a shilling. 5 x 5 = 25 pence = 2 shillings and a penny. 5 x one Shilling is 5 shillings. Plus 2 shillings and one pence = 7 shillings and one pence. 7/1d.
As I said simple.

And haven't gone into £sd.
 
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backwoodsman

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But it's not one 5th of 10. There were 12d to a shilling. 5 x 5 = 25 pence = 2 shillings and a penny. 5 x one Shilling is 5 shillings. Plus 2 shillings and one pence = 7 shillings and one pence. 7/1d.
As I said simple.

And haven't gone into £sd.
Who mentioned 10? A fifth is written as one, slash, five. (Which is what you typed). A fifth of anything, times by five, is one. Even if it's a 'd". And you obviously missed the smiley in my original .... :):)
 

rosecott

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England Golf will postpone the use of 4BBB competitions for handicapping if the technology is not appropriately developed to the required standard. Appropriate measures will be taken to ensure communication to all counties and clubs if there is a requirement to postpone the use of 4BBB scores for handicapping.
 

wjemather

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England Golf will postpone the use of 4BBB competitions for handicapping if the technology is not appropriately developed to the required standard. Appropriate measures will be taken to ensure communication to all counties and clubs if there is a requirement to postpone the use of 4BBB scores for handicapping.
They did say this in the initial communication but hid it by using far less words. It seems that confidence in at least one ISV is diminishing and postponement is becoming increasingly likely.
 

rulie

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Perhaps the handicap system (and the managers of) are becoming far too reliant on "technology"? What about the players themselves managing their own scores? As someone said earlier, pretty soon I won't event have to go out and play, just sign in and the "system" will generate a score for me on that day!
 
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