Mixed 4BBB Matchplay

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
13,471
Location
Cambs
Visit site
Trying to find a definitive answer for this but struggling so I'll ask here - hopefully the answer can be put in simple terms :)

Mixed 4BBB matchplay. Men off the yellow tees/card, ladies off red tees/card. Difference in CR is 3 and shots were correctly applied to the Ladies handicaps BUT they then played off the Ladies Card.

I thought the equalising of shots then meant you all played of the same card?

Thanks...
 

YandaB

Newbie
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,176
Visit site
Trying to find a definitive answer for this but struggling so I'll ask here - hopefully the answer can be put in simple terms :)

Mixed 4BBB matchplay. Men off the yellow tees/card, ladies off red tees/card. Difference in CR is 3 and shots were correctly applied to the Ladies handicaps BUT they then played off the Ladies Card.

I thought the equalising of shots then meant you all played of the same card?

Thanks...
When you say "played of the same card" do you mean using the stroke indexes from that card?
 

YandaB

Newbie
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,176
Visit site
Stroke Indexes and Par - yes.
As I understand it, the competition organisers are supposed to define which set of SIs should be used, what do the terms of the competition say? Wrong - thats for foursomes.

https://www.englandgolf.org/mixed-multi-tee-events says:

  • In Four-Ball formats from mixed tees, individual players score using the card and Stroke Index appropriate for the tee they are playing from

Par is not relevant, the course adjustment shots have made up for that.
 

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
13,471
Location
Cambs
Visit site
As I understand it, the competition organisers are supposed to define which set of SIs should be used, what do the terms of the competition say? Wrong - thats for foursomes.

https://www.englandgolf.org/mixed-multi-tee-events says:

  • In Four-Ball formats from mixed tees, individual players score using the card and Stroke Index appropriate for the tee they are playing from

Par is not relevant, the course adjustment shots have made up for that.

So even though par is 2 less for the red tees? Am I thinking old school pre WHS...

So basically the Ladies received 3 extra for the difference in CR but then also had a 2 shot "advantage" due to the difference in par...
 

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
13,471
Location
Cambs
Visit site
See in my head, if you play off your own tees and own card, why the need to equalise between the two...

Ooh maybe it's becoming clear. Because one set of tees plays more difficult than the other...and par is never in the calculation?!
 

rulie

Head Pro
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,183
Visit site
See in my head, if you play off your own tees and own card, why the need to equalise between the two...

Ooh maybe it's becoming clear. Because one set of tees plays more difficult than the other...and par is never in the calculation?!
The lowest number of strokes wins the hole, regardless of par.
 

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
13,471
Location
Cambs
Visit site
Thanks all. Got my head around the par not being relevant (took a while!) so now to explain to HID who played against the Ladies today!!
 

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
13,471
Location
Cambs
Visit site
Ahh just got the full story. The ladies declared they'd halved holes with a nett 5, vs a nett 4, because it was a Par 5 off the reds and 4 off the yellows...

Lady Comp secretary adamant it came from England Golf/WHS.

Oopsie.
 

rulie

Head Pro
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,183
Visit site
Ahh just got the full story. The ladies declared they'd halved holes with a nett 5, vs a nett 4, because it was a Par 5 off the reds and 4 off the yellows...

Lady Comp secretary adamant it came from England Golf/WHS.

Oopsie.
I hope you find out the truth and report back.
 

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
13,471
Location
Cambs
Visit site
As a follow up to this, and I'm still trying to get my head round it, this is the latest directive from the club for mixed matchplay. Is this correct?

Mixed Gender Matches: Ladies receive 2 shots (Adjustment) added to their CH to equalise Par – Gents par is 70 off both Yellows/Whites; Ladies par 72.

WHITES (GENTS)​
YELLOWS (GENTS)​

H.I.​
CH
Adj​
PH​
SR​
CH​
Adj​
PH.​
SR
Liam
10.4​
12​
0​
12​
0
10​
0​
10​
0
Megan (REDS)
21.3​
24​
2​
26​
14
24​
2​
26​
16

For a mixed gender match each player plays off their own par and stroke index i.e. Men off the white/yellow par and stroke index and Ladies off the red par and stroke index. Shots are received according to where they fall within the stroke indexes. Player with the lowest nett score wins the hole.
The 7th and 17th holes at EFGC are par 5’s for the Ladies and par 4 for Gents. On these 2 holes winner will be decided by nett performance v. par.
E.G. On the 7th Megan scores 6, nett 5 – level par, Liam scores 5, nett 4, also
level par thus halving the hole. On the 17th Megan scores 5, nett 4 - 1 under par, Liam scores another 5, nett 4 - level par so Megan wins the hole.
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
3,909
Location
Bristol
Visit site
As a follow up to this, and I'm still trying to get my head round it, this is the latest directive from the club for mixed matchplay. Is this correct?

Mixed Gender Matches: Ladies receive 2 shots (Adjustment) added to their CH to equalise Par – Gents par is 70 off both Yellows/Whites; Ladies par 72.
WHITES (GENTS)​
YELLOWS (GENTS)​
H.I.​
CH​
Adj​
PH​
SR​
CH​
Adj​
PH.​
SR​
Liam
10.4​
12​
0​
12​
0
10​
0​
10​
0
Megan (REDS)
21.3​
24​
2​
26​
14
24​
2​
26​
16

For a mixed gender match each player plays off their own par and stroke index i.e. Men off the white/yellow par and stroke index and Ladies off the red par and stroke index. Shots are received according to where they fall within the stroke indexes. Player with the lowest nett score wins the hole.
The 7th and 17th holes at EFGC are par 5’s for the Ladies and par 4 for Gents. On these 2 holes winner will be decided by nett performance v. par.
E.G. On the 7th Megan scores 6, nett 5 – level par, Liam scores 5, nett 4, also
level par thus halving the hole. On the 17th Megan scores 5, nett 4 - 1 under par, Liam scores another 5, nett 4 - level par so Megan wins the hole.
In match play, lowest nett score wins the hole (par is irrelevant); i.e. in your example, Liam wins the 7th hole as his nett 4 beats Megan's nett 5, and the 17th is halved in nett 4.

The difference in pars is already accounted for with the mixed tee adjustment in the playing handicaps, with Megan getting 2 extra strokes. Playing match play relative to par would effectively give her an additional 2 strokes.
 

AmandaJR

Money List Winner
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
13,471
Location
Cambs
Visit site
In match play, lowest nett score wins the hole (par is irrelevant); i.e. in your example, Liam wins the 7th hole as his nett 4 beats Megan's nett 5, and the 17th is halved in nett 4.

The difference in pars is already accounted for with the mixed tee adjustment in the playing handicaps, with Megan getting 2 extra strokes. Playing match play relative to par would effectively give her an additional 2 strokes.

Thanks. That's exactly what we both thought.
 

Oldbutwise

New member
Joined
Nov 1, 2023
Messages
29
Visit site
Thanks. That's exactly what we both thought.
Someone has a misunderstanding how match play works. Par is already accounted for so Liam plays off scratch and Megan gets one stroke on holes with stroke indices 1 to 16 or 1 to 14 dependaent on tees used. That table is a mess.
 
Top