Mixed 4BBB Matchplay

[AmandaJR]

Trying to find a definitive answer for this but struggling so I'll ask here - hopefully the answer can be put in simple terms

Mixed 4BBB matchplay. Men off the yellow tees/card, ladies off red tees/card. Difference in CR is 3 and shots were correctly applied to the Ladies handicaps BUT they then played off the Ladies Card.

I thought the equalising of shots then meant you all played of the same card?

Thanks...

 

[YandaB]

Trying to find a definitive answer for this but struggling so I'll ask here - hopefully the answer can be put in simple terms

Mixed 4BBB matchplay. Men off the yellow tees/card, ladies off red tees/card. Difference in CR is 3 and shots were correctly applied to the Ladies handicaps BUT they then played off the Ladies Card.

I thought the equalising of shots then meant you all played of the same card?

Thanks...

When you say "played of the same card" do you mean using the stroke indexes from that card?

 

[AmandaJR]

When you say "played of the same card" do you mean using the stroke indexes from that card?

Stroke Indexes and Par - yes.

 

[YandaB]

Stroke Indexes and Par - yes.

As I understand it, the competition organisers are supposed to define which set of SIs should be used, what do the terms of the competition say? Wrong - thats for foursomes.

https://www.englandgolf.org/mixed-multi-tee-events says:

• In Four-Ball formats from mixed tees, individual players score using the card and Stroke Index appropriate for the tee they are playing from

Par is not relevant, the course adjustment shots have made up for that.

 

[AmandaJR]

As I understand it, the competition organisers are supposed to define which set of SIs should be used, what do the terms of the competition say? Wrong - thats for foursomes.

https://www.englandgolf.org/mixed-multi-tee-events says:

• In Four-Ball formats from mixed tees, individual players score using the card and Stroke Index appropriate for the tee they are playing from

Par is not relevant, the course adjustment shots have made up for that.

So even though par is 2 less for the red tees? Am I thinking old school pre WHS...

So basically the Ladies received 3 extra for the difference in CR but then also had a 2 shot "advantage" due to the difference in par...

 

[D-S]

Par is irrelevant in matchplay.

 

[AmandaJR]

Par is irrelevant in matchplay.

Well you have to base your score on a hole on something though? So when it's a Par 5 for ladies but Par 4 for men?

 

[AmandaJR]

See in my head, if you play off your own tees and own card, why the need to equalise between the two...

Ooh maybe it's becoming clear. Because one set of tees plays more difficult than the other...and par is never in the calculation?!

 

[rulie]

See in my head, if you play off your own tees and own card, why the need to equalise between the two...

Ooh maybe it's becoming clear. Because one set of tees plays more difficult than the other...and par is never in the calculation?!

The lowest number of strokes wins the hole, regardless of par.

 

[Colin L]

Well you have to base your score on a hole on something though? So when it's a Par 5 for ladies but Par 4 for men?

You base your score on the number of strokes you have taken. That's it.

 

[AmandaJR]

The lowest number of strokes wins the hole, regardless of par.

What about the SI of holes? All play off the same card or relative tees?

 

[wjemather]

What about the SI of holes? All play off the same card or relative tees?

Each player receives strokes according to the SIs for the tees they are playing - as such, SIs could be different for every player.

 

[AmandaJR]

Thanks all. Got my head around the par not being relevant (took a while!) so now to explain to HID who played against the Ladies today!!

 

[AmandaJR]

Ahh just got the full story. The ladies declared they'd halved holes with a nett 5, vs a nett 4, because it was a Par 5 off the reds and 4 off the yellows...

Lady Comp secretary adamant it came from England Golf/WHS.

Oopsie.

 

[rulie]

Ahh just got the full story. The ladies declared they'd halved holes with a nett 5, vs a nett 4, because it was a Par 5 off the reds and 4 off the yellows...

Lady Comp secretary adamant it came from England Golf/WHS.

Oopsie.

I hope you find out the truth and report back.

 

[AmandaJR]

As a follow up to this, and I'm still trying to get my head round it, this is the latest directive from the club for mixed matchplay. Is this correct?

Mixed Gender Matches: Ladies receive 2 shots (Adjustment) added to their CH to equalise Par – Gents par is 70 off both Yellows/Whites; Ladies par 72.

	WHITES (GENTS)​	YELLOWS (GENTS)​
​	H.I.​	CH ​	Adj​	PH​	SR​	CH​	Adj​	PH.​	SR ​
Liam	10.4​	12​	0​	12​	0​	10​	0​	10​	0​
Megan (REDS)	21.3​	24​	2​	26​	14​	24​	2​	26​	16​

For a mixed gender match each player plays off their own par and stroke index i.e. Men off the white/yellow par and stroke index and Ladies off the red par and stroke index. Shots are received according to where they fall within the stroke indexes. Player with the lowest nett score wins the hole.
The 7th and 17th holes at EFGC are par 5’s for the Ladies and par 4 for Gents. On these 2 holes winner will be decided by nett performance v. par.
E.G. On the 7th Megan scores 6, nett 5 – level par, Liam scores 5, nett 4, also
level par thus halving the hole. On the 17th Megan scores 5, nett 4 - 1 under par, Liam scores another 5, nett 4 - level par so Megan wins the hole.

 

[wjemather]

As a follow up to this, and I'm still trying to get my head round it, this is the latest directive from the club for mixed matchplay. Is this correct?

Mixed Gender Matches: Ladies receive 2 shots (Adjustment) added to their CH to equalise Par – Gents par is 70 off both Yellows/Whites; Ladies par 72.

	WHITES (GENTS)​	YELLOWS (GENTS)​
​	H.I.​	CH​	Adj​	PH​	SR​	CH​	Adj​	PH.​	SR​
Liam	10.4​	12​	0​	12​	0​	10​	0​	10​	0​
Megan (REDS)	21.3​	24​	2​	26​	14​	24​	2​	26​	16​

For a mixed gender match each player plays off their own par and stroke index i.e. Men off the white/yellow par and stroke index and Ladies off the red par and stroke index. Shots are received according to where they fall within the stroke indexes. Player with the lowest nett score wins the hole.
The 7th and 17th holes at EFGC are par 5’s for the Ladies and par 4 for Gents. On these 2 holes winner will be decided by nett performance v. par.
E.G. On the 7th Megan scores 6, nett 5 – level par, Liam scores 5, nett 4, also
level par thus halving the hole. On the 17th Megan scores 5, nett 4 - 1 under par, Liam scores another 5, nett 4 - level par so Megan wins the hole.

In match play, lowest nett score wins the hole (par is irrelevant); i.e. in your example, Liam wins the 7th hole as his nett 4 beats Megan's nett 5, and the 17th is halved in nett 4.

The difference in pars is already accounted for with the mixed tee adjustment in the playing handicaps, with Megan getting 2 extra strokes. Playing match play relative to par would effectively give her an additional 2 strokes.

 

[AmandaJR]

In match play, lowest nett score wins the hole (par is irrelevant); i.e. in your example, Liam wins the 7th hole as his nett 4 beats Megan's nett 5, and the 17th is halved in nett 4.

The difference in pars is already accounted for with the mixed tee adjustment in the playing handicaps, with Megan getting 2 extra strokes. Playing match play relative to par would effectively give her an additional 2 strokes.

Thanks. That's exactly what we both thought.

 

[Oldbutwise]

Thanks. That's exactly what we both thought.

Someone has a misunderstanding how match play works. Par is already accounted for so Liam plays off scratch and Megan gets one stroke on holes with stroke indices 1 to 16 or 1 to 14 dependaent on tees used. That table is a mess.

 

[wjemather]

That table is a mess.

I think it's supposed to look something like this but the merged cells got screwed up when pasting here: