Mixed comps and extra shots for women

[doublebogey7]

Typical golf admin reply, ie "its just the way it is, I can't really say why so just shut up and go away".

So here's a question for you, not a trick question just a matter of view point:

If Lexie Thompson got through Open Final Qualifying, which she could well do, and pegged it up in the Open Championship, do you think she should be given shots each day to equal out the fact that for amateur golfers the CR is different for men and women? This could possibly give her let's say 3 shots per day, ie 12 for the tournament if she made the cut. That is exactly what happens in mixed scratch tournaments and what you support.

Simple yes or no question to which you cannot reply "it's a men's tournament so irrelevant" because it is actually open to male and female.

99% of scratch events are played from a single set of tees. What harm is being done when an organiser chooses to have a tournament where the best skilled men and best skilled women are encouraged to compete against each other. Nobody is being forced to play.

 

[Eesat 90210]

99% of scratch events are played from a single set of tees. What harm is being done when an organiser chooses to have a tournament where the best skilled men and best skilled women are encouraged to compete against each other. Nobody is being forced to play.

So what is your point of view?

 

[doublebogey7]

So what is your point of view?

No harm done, what's your's?

 

[Eesat 90210]

No harm done, what's your's?

I've put my point of view fairly clearly, probably more times than needed

Reading your post, it gives no clue what you think about some players getting shots in a scratch comp.

 

[D-S]

I've put my point of view fairly clearly, probably more times than needed

Reading your post, it gives no clue what you think about some players getting shots in a scratch comp.

Is it a Men’s scratch competition or a Women’s scratch competition or a Mixed Gender scratch competition? You need to give full details when asking the question.

 

[doublebogey7]

I've put my point of view fairly clearly, probably more times than needed

Reading your post, it gives no clue what you think about some players getting shots in a scratch comp.

Pretty obvious if you read my post. But for clarity if an organiser chooses to do so in order encourage men and women to compete then then I see no problem. So now please repay the courtesy and answer my question.

 

[rulie]

Pretty obvious if you read my post. But for clarity if an organiser chooses to do so in order encourage men and women to compete then then I see no problem. So now please repay the courtesy and answer my question.

A question for you - on what basis, in your opinion, would the organizer decide a number of strokes? If it's a scratch competition (no handicaps involved), then the handicap system itself is not providing the answer - it's up to the organizer.

 

[Eesat 90210]

Pretty obvious if you read my post. But for clarity if an organiser chooses to do so in order encourage men and women to compete then then I see no problem. So now please repay the courtesy and answer my question.

The reason we're discussing this is because I have raised the subject, just scroll back and see what I've written.

 

[KenL]

The reason we're discussing this is because I have raised the subject, just scroll back and see what I've written.

Could you please start your own thread rather than spoiling mine?
Thanks.

 

[doublebogey7]

The reason we're discussing this is because I have raised the subject, just scroll back and see what I've written.

I have re-read every line and there is nothing that suggests how a tourament that encourages elite men and elite women to compete courses any harm. So I'll ask again please answer that question.

 

[doublebogey7]

A question for you - on what basis, in your opinion, would the organizer decide a number of strokes? If it's a scratch competition (no handicaps involved), then the handicap system itself is not providing the answer - it's up to the organizer.

Assuming that the tees used have been rated for the relevant gender then the handicap system does provide the answer.

 

[Eesat 90210]

I have re-read every line and there is nothing that suggests how a tourament that encourages elite men and elite women to compete courses any harm. So I'll ask again please answer that question.

Nobody has ever mentioned "causing harm" .
I simply don't think that anyone in a scratch tournament should effectively get given a handicap based on anything, be it gender, age or whatever should they choose to enter.

 

[Eesat 90210]

Could you please start your own thread rather than spoiling mine?
Thanks.

Sorry
I just posted a related thought and it seems to have spiralled. My bad.

 

[rulie]

Assuming that the tees used have been rated for the relevant gender then the handicap system does provide the answer.

I would suggest that the handicap system does not provide the answer for a true scratch competition. However, it might provide some information for the Committee to consider when setting their terms of the competition for their competition.

 

[D-S]

Nobody has ever mentioned "causing harm" .
I simply don't think that anyone in a scratch tournament should effectively get given a handicap based on anything, be it gender, age or whatever should they choose to enter.

If it’s a mixed gender scratch tournament then it should be equalised, if it isn’t i.e. a Women’s cratch tournament or a Men’s scratch tournament then they wouldn’t get any equalising shots - not sure what is so difficult to comprehend?

 

[Eesat 90210]

If it’s a mixed gender scratch tournament then it should be equalised,

Good lord
Yes Captain Obvious, I clearly know the rules that are now in place, that is the whole point.
I happen to disagree that it "should".

Anyway, as Ken L points out, the thread is not about this.

 

[doublebogey7]

Good lord
Yes Captain Obvious, I clearly know the rules that are now in place, that is the whole point.
I happen to disagree that it "should".

Anyway, as Ken L points out, the thread is not about this.

Then there would be no point in mixed gender scratch competition's, at least not in amateur golf.

 

[Colin L]

Nobody has ever mentioned "causing harm" .
I simply don't think that anyone in a scratch tournament should effectively get given a handicap based on anything, be it gender, age or whatever should they choose to enter.

Which means that you are content that in a mixed scratch competition played off the same tees with no stroke allowance for the women, the odds will be stacked against them. Fine if you're a man, then.

 

[cliveb]

Thanks, inputting the numbers into the EG calculator (and using par 71 for men and 72 for ladies) the CH for a 10.0 player are 10 and 12 respectively. Best 2 of 3 recommendation is 85% which means PHs of 9 and 10 respectively.
One for the competition committee to explain then.

CR for men off yellow is 70.4, for ladies off red is 72.7 - a difference of 2.3.
I reckon the most likely explanation is that the comp committee have (erroneously) overlooked this is a stableford, and added 2 equalising shots as though it were a medal.

 

[wjemather]

A question for you - on what basis, in your opinion, would the organizer decide a number of strokes? If it's a scratch competition (no handicaps involved), then the handicap system itself is not providing the answer - it's up to the organizer.

Here is the relevant passage from GB&I guidance on the WHS Rules of Handicapping: