Mixed comps and extra shots for women

[wjemather]

Good lord
Yes Captain Obvious, I clearly know the rules that are now in place, that is the whole point.
I happen to disagree that it "should".

Anyway, as Ken L points out, the thread is not about this.

Perhaps making a clear distinction between the different types of competition would make it easier to understand:

• True mixed gender comps that make allowances for the difference in gender
• Comps designed for a single gender; however, the opposite gender may participate without allowances
• Comps that simply don't make allowance for the difference in gender

Option 3 is uncommon, and clearly your preference despite the fact is makes women uncompetitive.

 

[Slab]

Here is the relevant passage from GB&I guidance on the WHS Rules of Handicapping:

View attachment 56137

Reading a few posts in the thread, this is what was circling in my head. Scratch comps are not Pro Tournaments where no handicap system is used & no score will ever impact a players handicap
Scratch comps are most definitely still handicap comps, it just so happens the CH is scratch and scoring will (most often) impact a players HI

 

[woofers]

CR for men off yellow is 70.4, for ladies off red is 72.7 - a difference of 2.3.
I reckon the most likely explanation is that the comp committee have (erroneously) overlooked this is a stableford, and added 2 equalising shots as though it were a medal.

I don't think so.
When I input the figures into the EG calculator and change the format to medal, the result is a 1 shot adjustment which is the difference in par, (Men 71, Ladies 72)
The medal format shows CH's of 10.3735 and 11.8504 respectively and an adjustment of +1 shot for the ladies tees, giving PH's of 10 and 13 (for a 10.0 HI player, 100% allowance)

 

[cliveb]

I don't think so.
When I input the figures into the EG calculator and change the format to medal, the result is a 1 shot adjustment which is the difference in par, (Men 71, Ladies 72)
The medal format shows CH's of 10.3735 and 11.8504 respectively and an adjustment of +1 shot for the ladies tees, giving PH's of 10 and 13 (for a 10.0 HI player, 100% allowance)

Two things:

1. I tried out the EG mixed tee calculator, and it does indeed seem to take par into account on medals. But I can't understand why par is of any relevance in a medal comp. Surely CR is all that matters? Can anyone explain why par has an impact?

2. The handicap tables supplied by the OP don't have par on them, so I don't know where you got 71 and 72 from. Dunbar GC's website has the scorecard on it, and par is shown as 71 from all tees. (Unless the scorecard is specifically for men, and there's another ladies scorecard - which I couldn't find on their website).

 

[wjemather]

Two things:

1. I tried out the EG mixed tee calculator, and it does indeed seem to take par into account on medals. But I can't understand why par is of any relevance in a medal comp. Surely CR is all that matters? Can anyone explain why par has an impact?

2. The handicap tables supplied by the OP don't have par on them, so I don't know where you got 71 and 72 from. Dunbar GC's website has the scorecard on it, and par is shown as 71 from all tees. (Unless the scorecard is specifically for men, and there's another ladies scorecard - which I couldn't find on their website).

1. The adjustment is simply removing the effect of different course Pars that was introduced into the Course Handicap calculation by the inclusion CR-Par.

2. Dunbar is Par 71 for men, Par 72 for women (see https://ncrdb.usga.org/courseTeeInfo?CourseID=22611).

 

[cliveb]

1. The adjustment is simply removing the effect of different course Pars that was introduced into the Course Handicap calculation by the inclusion CR-Par.

Ah, right. So this is a new adjustment because adding CR-Par to the CH calculation meant that CH would be wrong in comps where par is not relevant. Got it.

2. Dunbar is Par 71 for men, Par 72 for women (see https://ncrdb.usga.org/courseTeeInfo?CourseID=22611).

OK, thanks.
Another example of a club's website sort of forgetting about ladies.

 

[wjemather]

Ah, right. So this is a new adjustment because adding CR-Par to the CH calculation meant that CH would be wrong in comps where par is not relevant. Got it.

Yes. For regular stroke play and match play, the adjustment pre-April 2024 was the difference in CR. With the inclusion of CR-Par in the CH calculation, the difference in CR is effectively included, but the effect of any difference in Pars needs to be removed.