Which Stroke Index to use in a Mixed Individual Matchplay?

[KopiteKing13]

Good morning all,

Tomorrow at our club there will be a mixed Individual Matchplay being played. The male player will be playing off our yellow tees and the female player will be playing off the red tees.

Here are the details for the match:

Yellow Tees	Red Tees
Par: 68	Par: 70
Course Rating: 63.0	Course Rating: 66.2
Slope: 101	Slope: 114
Male Player	Female Player
WHS Index: 33.5	WHS Index: 31.2
Course Handicap: 30	Course Handicap: 31

I've made the adjustment based on the difference in the course handicap (66.2 - 63.0 = 3.2 rounded down to 3), and it works out that the female player will be awarded 4 shots in that match. 31 shots plus the 3 extra from the difference in CR, which makes 34. Adjusted to the lower handicap in the match (30), gives 4 shots.

My question is what about the difference in the Stroke Indices between the two cards? Which set of Stroke Indices is used to determine which holes shots are given?

According to the yellow tees, S.I.s 1-4 come on holes 1, 4, 10 and 13. However, the reds have their S.I.s 1-4 on holes 2, 4, 10 and 11.

Thanks very much. I've tried googling everywhere and I can't find a definitive answer.

 

[DickInShorts]

I would expect that to be in the Terms of Competition.

My wife and I played in a Mixed Greensomes Stableford and the TOC stated the Ladies card - par and SI - would be used.

 

[D-S]

I would expect that to be in the Terms of Competition.

My wife and I played in a Mixed Greensomes Stableford and the TOC stated the Ladies card - par and SI - would be used.

I believe the advice is to use the shorter, normally the Ladies, course but can't find a reference.

 

[rulefan]

I believe the advice is to use the shorter, normally the Ladies, course but can't find a reference.

The only reference I could find is on the latest 'Guidance' but refers to Foursomes and Greensomes and recommends the shorter course

Edit: Just found this in the 2024 Rules.

6.2b Calculation When Multiple Tees Are Used in a Competition
(ii) Stroke Play and Match Play formats (where results are recorded relative to par).
As a player’s net (or gross) status versus par for the round is compared directly against that of every other player, no additional strokes
are added to the standard calculation of the Playing Handicap when the par is different between tees.

This means that when two players are competing from different tees with a different par, the hole is considered halved or the score remains even if
both players record a par on that hole. This is because the score on the hole is recorded relative to par rather than as the number of gross or net scores.

 

[D-S]

The only reference I could find is on the latest 'Guidance' but refers to Foursomes and Greensomes and recommends the shorter course

Edit: Just found this in the 2024 Rules.

6.2b Calculation When Multiple Tees Are Used in a Competition
(ii) Stroke Play and Match Play formats (where results are recorded relative to par).

Surely individual mixed matchplay is not a format “where results are recorded relative to par”?

 

[rulie]

To me, it's pretty obvious, if the strokes are being received by the lady, and she's playing from the red tees, that is the stroke index chart that would be used. She receives four strokes (as you have indicated) as per the stroke indeces for the red tees.

 

[wjemather]

Players each apply the Stroke Indexes for the tees they are playing. Only in single ball formats (foursomes, greensomes, scrambles) is it necessary to specify which set of SIs are to be used for everyone.

 

[D-S]

Players each apply the Stroke Indexes for the tees they are playing. Only in single ball formats (foursomes, greensomes, scrambles) is it necessary to specify which set of SIs are to be used for everyone.

Yes and this, individual/singles matchplay, is a format in which the set of SIs need to be specified. I still haven’t seen the definitive reference despite posters, including me, being fairly sure that the ‘shorter course’ is what should be used.

 

[wjemather]

Yes and this, individual/singles matchplay, is a format in which the set of SIs need to be specified. I still haven’t seen the definitive reference despite posters, including me, being fairly sure that the ‘shorter course’ is what should be used.

It's strongly advised in the guidance examples for foursomes and greensomes, but I remember reading or hearing it elsewhere too, and I believe it was qualified by saying that if one set of tees is used by the vast majority of players, it may make more sense to use the Pars and SIs for those tees.

 

[rulie]

In the specific example being discussed, the lady is receiving the strokes and is playing from the red tees. She should be using the ladies red tees stroke indeces.
Why would anyone suggest that anything else should be used for this specific case? The only alternative would be that she would use the men's yellow indeces but that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[D-S]

In the specific example being discussed, the lady is receiving the strokes and is playing from the red tees. She should be using the ladies red tees stroke indeces.
Why would anyone suggest that anything else should be used for this specific case? The only alternative would be that she would use the men's yellow indeces but that makes no sense whatsoever.

100% agree, but why on earth can’t we find where this is written down and we are able to reference it??

 

[rulie]

100% agree, but why on earth can’t we find where this is written down and we are able to reference it??

It would be in the handicapping Rules somewhere, but some common sense and logic can lead to the answer.

 

[Wabinez]

At my place, the mixed matchplay uses the men’s card for the SI and par…so maybe it’s up to the individual club, with guidance provided by rules of handicapping

 

[Swango1980]

On the England Golf website ( https://www.englandgolf.org/mixed-multi-tee-events )

It says:

• In Four-Ball formats from mixed tees, individual players score using the card and Stroke Index appropriate for the tee they are playing from

I assume the same guidance would be true for Singles Match Play. And it makes complete sense. If the Lady was getting the shots, then it seems sensible she gets them on SI 1-4 from the red tees she is playing from. Whereas if the male was getting the shots, it would make sense he got them on SI 1-4 on the yellow tees he was playing from.

 

[sjn]

The only reference I could find is on the latest 'Guidance' but refers to Foursomes and Greensomes and recommends the shorter course

Edit: Just found this in the 2024 Rules.

6.2b Calculation When Multiple Tees Are Used in a Competition
(ii) Stroke Play and Match Play formats (where results are recorded relative to par).
As a player’s net (or gross) status versus par for the round is compared directly against that of every other player, no additional strokes
are added to the standard calculation of the Playing Handicap when the par is different between tees.

This means that when two players are competing from different tees with a different par, the hole is considered halved or the score remains even if
both players record a par on that hole. This is because the score on the hole is recorded relative to par rather than as the number of gross or net scores.

6.2b wording looks very confusing to me ; When in matchplay do you record scores relative to par ? We have a a hole which is par 4 for men, par 5 for ladies and the ladies usually get a shot their v the men ; are they saying that in that circumtance in matchplay if the lady scores a net 5 , and the man a gross 4 , then the hole is halved ? That's nuts

 

[rulie]

6.2b wording looks very confusing to me ; When in matchplay do you record scores relative to par ? We have a a hole which is par 4 for men, par 5 for ladies and the ladies usually get a shot their v the men ; are they saying that in that circumtance in matchplay if the lady scores a net 5 , and the man a gross 4 , then the hole is halved ? That's nuts

Par is irrelevant in this situation. The lowest score (gross or net, depends on the competition) wins the hole. In your example, the hole is halved (tied).

 

[Colin L]

6.2b wording looks very confusing to me ; When in matchplay do you record scores relative to par ? We have a a hole which is par 4 for men, par 5 for ladies and the ladies usually get a shot their v the men ; are they saying that in that circumtance in matchplay if the lady scores a net 5 , and the man a gross 4 , then the hole is halved ? That's nuts

You can play a match using stableford scoring which means the scores are relative to par but as rulie says, in normal matchplay the net score at any hole is what matters.

 

[doublebogey7]

Par is irrelevant in this situation. The lowest score (gross or net, depends on the competition) wins the hole. In your example, the hole is halved (tied).

You are of course right par is irrelevant in matchplay, but surely a gross 4 always beats a net 5.

 

[louise_a]

I have played in several mixed singles knockouts and shots have been taken both ways.

 

[rosecott]

You are of course right par is irrelevant in matchplay, but surely a gross 4 always beats a net 5.

Surely the gross 4 can also be a net 4.