Calculating shots in 4BBB Matchplay from 1st April 2024

Tangerineman64

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The WHS changes from April in GB & I amend the method for calculating shots in 4BBB matchplay.

The example in the guidance v 2.3 on page 46 is a mixed 4BBB off different tees.

My query refers to when playing off the same tee. When working out the difference in course handicaps between the lowest handicapper and each of the other players, is the course handicap rounded or unrounded for each player before working out the difference.
 

D-S

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The WHS changes from April in GB & I amend the method for calculating shots in 4BBB matchplay.

The example in the guidance v 2.3 on page 46 is a mixed 4BBB off different tees.

My query refers to when playing off the same tee. When working out the difference in course handicaps between the lowest handicapper and each of the other players, is the course handicap rounded or unrounded for each player before working out the difference.
As far as I understand, your playing handicap is 100% of your Course Handicap and as it is a Playing Handicap it is a rounded number. The shot allowance is 90% of the difference between the Playing Handicaps.
This is a new wrinkle and has changed from the previous way we did it under WHS - a change EG failed to spell out when first announcing the 2024 changes.
 

Tangerineman64

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As far as I understand, your playing handicap is 100% of your Course Handicap and as it is a Playing Handicap it is a rounded number. The shot allowance is 90% of the difference between the Playing Handicaps.
This is a new wrinkle and has changed from the previous way we did it under WHS - a change EG failed to spell out when first announcing the 2024 changes.
An alternative view from one of the clubs in our league is that as the definition of playing handicap is
  • Playing Handicap is the Course Handicap adjusted for any Handicap Allowance. It represents the actual number of strokes the player gives or receives for the round being played.
for 4BBB matchplay, it is the difference between the unrounded Course Handicaps that the 90% is applied to to get the number of strokes the player gives or receives.
They also refer to page 21 of the guidance document where it states "Note that if the calculation is being done manually, players can use the rounded Course Handicap
to calculated Playing Handicaps (e.g. a casual 4-Ball match play round)". This sentence would only be needed if the course handicap was unrounded.

Hopefully, something will come out from the national associations before the start of the league season.
 

wjemather

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An alternative view from one of the clubs in our league is that as the definition of playing handicap is
  • Playing Handicap is the Course Handicap adjusted for any Handicap Allowance. It represents the actual number of strokes the player gives or receives for the round being played.
for 4BBB matchplay, it is the difference between the unrounded Course Handicaps that the 90% is applied to to get the number of strokes the player gives or receives.
They also refer to page 21 of the guidance document where it states "Note that if the calculation is being done manually, players can use the rounded Course Handicap
to calculated Playing Handicaps (e.g. a casual 4-Ball match play round)". This sentence would only be needed if the course handicap was unrounded.

Hopefully, something will come out from the national associations before the start of the league season.
EG have confirmed that the 4BBB matchplay allowance is 100%, and strokes received is 90% of the difference from the lowest - as per the example in the guidance.
 
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Tangerineman64

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As far as I understand, your playing handicap is 100% of your Course Handicap and as it is a Playing Handicap it is a rounded number. The shot allowance is 90% of the difference between the Playing Handicaps.
This is a new wrinkle and has changed from the previous way we did it under WHS - a change EG failed to spell out when first announcing the 2024

EG have confirmed that the 4BBB matchplay allowance is 100%, and strokes received is 90% of the difference from the lowest - as per the example in the guidance.
Thank you both for clarifying. Bizarre though that we are keeping the double rounding in 4BBB matchplay whilst getting rid of it in the other formats. That's WHS for you.
 

tobybarker

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An alternative view from one of the clubs in our league is that as the definition of playing handicap is
  • Playing Handicap is the Course Handicap adjusted for any Handicap Allowance. It represents the actual number of strokes the player gives or receives for the round being played.
for 4BBB matchplay, it is the difference between the unrounded Course Handicaps that the 90% is applied to to get the number of strokes the player gives or receives.
They also refer to page 21 of the guidance document where it states "Note that if the calculation is being done manually, players can use the rounded Course Handicap
to calculated Playing Handicaps (e.g. a casual 4-Ball match play round)". This sentence would only be needed if the course handicap was unrounded.

Hopefully, something will come out from the national associations before the start of the league season.
so it might be 90% of 14.253 good luck with that if you dont have a calculator
 

Crazyface

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I just mither everyone around and get them to tell me what we are off and roll my eyes and exclaim how crazy it all is. Simples!
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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An alternative view from one of the clubs in our league is that as the definition of playing handicap is
  • Playing Handicap is the Course Handicap adjusted for any Handicap Allowance. It represents the actual number of strokes the player gives or receives for the round being played.
for 4BBB matchplay, it is the difference between the unrounded Course Handicaps that the 90% is applied to to get the number of strokes the player gives or receives.
They also refer to page 21 of the guidance document where it states "Note that if the calculation is being done manually, players can use the rounded Course Handicap
to calculated Playing Handicaps (e.g. a casual 4-Ball match play round)". This sentence would only be needed if the course handicap was unrounded.

Hopefully, something will come out from the national associations before the start of the league season.
Are you sure. I am pretty certain that elsewhere on here I have read that PH for 4BBB is 100% of rounded CH (i.e PH = rounded CH). Rounded CH vs HI will be provided. Shots given is then 90% of difference in PHs off the lowest.
 

apj0524

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Am I correct in as much as if the CH for each Player as as follows:

A = 15.44 = 15
B = 7.885 = 8
C = 12.123 = 12
D = 3.445 = 3

Shots given

D = 0
A = 12 @ 90% = 10.8 = 11
B = 5 @ 90% = 5
C = 9 @ 90% = 8

If this is correct every one now has a CH that is reduced by D's CH i.e. 3 shots then reduced further by 10%?

Thanks
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Am I correct in as much as if the CH for each Player as as follows:

A = 15.44 = 15
B = 7.885 = 8
C = 12.123 = 12
D = 3.445 = 3

Shots given

D = 0
A = 12 @ 90% = 10.8 = 11
B = 5 @ 90% = 5
C = 9 @ 90% = 8

If this is correct every one now has a CH that is reduced by D's CH i.e. 3 shots then reduced further by 10%?

Thanks
I would think of shots being calculated in respect of PHs and not CHs (even though the CH and PH are the same in 4BBB). So it is a players PH that is reduced by the lowest PH prior to shots being calculated at 90%.

But I will stand corrected.
 

Tangerineman64

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The consensus is that the course handicap is rounded. I'll just throw this into the mix to add to the confusion. This screenshot is from the USGA website where the changes took effect this month and in the example they use, the course handicap is unrounded. The video is here https://www.usga.org/handicapping/whs-ce/club-education.html , you can skip to appendix c by using the menu in the top left hand corner of the video. I have no idea why GB & I would be using something different than this but who knows?

1706631247158.png
 

Swango1980

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The consensus is that the course handicap is rounded. I'll just throw this into the mix to add to the confusion. This screenshot is from the USGA website where the changes took effect this month and in the example they use, the course handicap is unrounded. The video is here https://www.usga.org/handicapping/whs-ce/club-education.html , you can skip to appendix c by using the menu in the top left hand corner of the video. I have no idea why GB & I would be using something different than this but who knows?

View attachment 51652
You could say this about a few things since it was implemented.
 

tobybarker

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I am yet to read the exact line in GB&I literature that says about the change to the 90% application in 4BBB matchplay...I'm being thick I'm sure. That video from the USGA certainly mentions it, however.
 

wjemather

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The consensus is that the course handicap is rounded. I'll just throw this into the mix to add to the confusion. This screenshot is from the USGA website where the changes took effect this month and in the example they use, the course handicap is unrounded. The video is here https://www.usga.org/handicapping/whs-ce/club-education.html , you can skip to appendix c by using the menu in the top left hand corner of the video. I have no idea why GB & I would be using something different than this but who knows?
Each handicapping authority is able to select options to suit the playing culture in their jurisdiction.
 

IanMcC

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What are the feelings of M&H people on here regarding putting info on the walls of the clubhouse for 4BBB allowances? We have a season long knockout pairs comp.

My thoughts are to put up a 100% HI to CH conversion chart, and then instruct players to take 90% difference from lowest.

I will, however, point all players to the online mixed tee calculator.

I have attached the conversion chart for our course.
 

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rulie

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I don't know why the USGA table would show and use all those insignificant numbers after the first two or three. They mean nothing given that the starting point (differentials) and handicap index only have three significant numbers. And I'm sure the final answer wouldn't be any different. The machine does not measure anything and hence "machine precision" is irrelevant.
 

wjemather

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What are the feelings of M&H people on here regarding putting info on the walls of the clubhouse for 4BBB allowances? We have a season long knockout pairs comp.

My thoughts are to put up a 100% HI to CH conversion chart, and then instruct players to take 90% difference from lowest.

I will, however, point all players to the online mixed tee calculator.

I have attached the conversion chart for our course.
We've always had the 90% tables posted on the noticeboards. The change to 90% of the difference means CH tables will now suffice.
 
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