Sex discrimination in golf

[Lord Tyrion]

Now imagine that's a Saturday....

I agree. If I was in charge of a golf club I wouldn't block off any competition for any section. Booking available for all.

Come down and play at my club ?. The only block booking on a Saturday is the ladies from 8.30-10. Ladies can book outside those times, as can every other member, but that slot is theirs only. Crazy in this modern era that women who work are effectively barred from playing on one of the two key days available at a weekend.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

… I told him that he's a Richard Head ?

I used to do a bit of work with a Richard Head…no really…that‘s his name…?

 

[chellie]

I agree. If I was in charge of a golf club I wouldn't block off any competition for any section. Booking available for all.

Come down and play at my club ?. The only block booking on a Saturday is the ladies from 8.30-10. Ladies can book outside those times, as can every other member, but that slot is theirs only. Crazy in this modern era that women who work are effectively barred from playing on one of the two key days available at a weekend.

When is your competition day? Our men's is on a Saturday and usually has a reserve list. Usually plus 170 play. Times available afterwards.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

When is your competition day? Our men's is on a Saturday and usually has a reserve list. Usually plus 170 play. Times available afterwards.

The main mens comp is on a Sunday, booking closed off 7.30-10.20. Rest of the day is open to all. You can still play in the comp after 10.20 but you take your chance of a time with everyone else. There is also a chilled, yellow tee, comp on a Saturday but no times are closed off for that. You just book and play whenever.

We don't have a huge membership so that helps but equally I don't agree with closing off tee times from part of a membership. Everyone should have an equal chance to play each day.

 

[KenL]

What does that even mean? A scratch golfer, or a 30 handicapper, can play off any set of tees rated for them. So, who determines a players ability and whether they can play off a set of tees?

Would you ban a 28 handicapper from playing of the back tees at a short course, but he can then go to a long championship course and play off yellows, even though that yellow course is a lot longer than off whites at the 1st place?

Many clubs don't allow play off back tees to protect them from heavy footfall. Also, having some groups playing off back tees could slow the general pace of play (good golfers can be slow as well). If clubs are willing to allow guests to play off back tees, perhaps they should keep green fees as they are for yellows, and a premium rate on whites. Let us see how many are willing to pay for the privilege.

Well, it's about people playing off tees appropriate for them so they can get round in a reasonable time, and more importantly, enjoy the game.

I have an index of 4.9 (was at 3.6 a few months ago). Played Gleneagles PGA, in August with other good golfers (2 lower than me). Off the whites, 6900 yards. Took almost 5 hours and was not that enjoyable. If I had played off the next tees, I would gave enjoyed it a lot more.

I scored 89 in perfect conditions.

 

[KenL]

I'm on a concession for being young. It absolutely has made me loyal, I'm a member for life.

I wouldn't have got a membership at the full rate, wasn't sure the value was there. (In pandemic)

I agree with younger people getting a break to keep them in the game. But, at my last club it was up to 30. Played with and experienced lawyer earning way more than me who was 29 and paying 2/3 fees.

 

[Orikoru]

I believe that greens fees should be linked to the tees you play from. OK, there's a big correlation to gender that way but not necessarily. I've played several courses where I felt I was being ripped off paying the same amount for a vastly inferior experience.

You might find a hell of a lot more men playing off the reds then in that case. ?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

At our place the seniors have a big chunk of Monday mornings booked out for their use only. Annoys the heck out of me on Bank Holidays as it means I can't take advantage of my extra day off. I've raised it as an issue but been told 'it's always been that way' as though that makes it okay ?

I think that your objection is valid because of the Bank holiday thing.
Why cannot the seniors have their competition on a weekday which is never a Bank holiday.?
If that suggestion fell on deaf ears, then they need to be called out on it and challenged at every opportunity until reasonableness and fairness prevail.

 

[chrisd]

I don't have too much trouble with specific groups having access to the course at set times and days as some competitions etc are best run as a block booking. I do dislike it when, like last week at mine, there was a vets match against another club immediately followed by a swindle and then a society. We did get a round in but were told to get to the turn quicker than we normally would or we wouldn't be able to play through, this made us rush and pretty much spoiled the whole round.

By contrast, the same day this week we went out behind a vets comp (3 balls) as a 4 ball and the course was almost empty otherwise and we just sailed round in our own good time

 

[AliMc]

At our place the seniors have a big chunk of Monday mornings booked out for their use only. Annoys the heck out of me on Bank Holidays as it means I can't take advantage of my extra day off. I've raised it as an issue but been told 'it's always been that way' as though that makes it okay ?

We have similar on a Monday LT, think they are called the 65 club maybe, anyway I was recently playing with one of our recent club captains and he was telling us that during his captaincy he was approached by said club to grant them more tee times, on the refusing this request he was politely told 'the Seniors are the future of this club' to which I think he just fell about laughing ?

 

[DanFST]

Good to hear.
But where I live we are the only club left with a JF.

I should preface this, I'm at the best members club in the area. So maybe a very different.

I agree with younger people getting a break to keep them in the game. But, at my last club it was up to 30. Played with and experienced lawyer earning way more than me who was 29 and paying 2/3 fees.

I would hazard a guess, the young man pays much more per round than a senior! Edge case however.

 

[Swango1980]

I agree with younger people getting a break to keep them in the game. But, at my last club it was up to 30. Played with and experienced lawyer earning way more than me who was 29 and paying 2/3 fees.

Why pick individual cases? Unless you propose that membership fees are solely based on what an individual earns (and forgetting what their other outgoings are). I'd imagine most people up to the age of 30 are still finding their way in the world, climbing their way up the career ladder (and maybe having kids as well). The average salary (2020), from 22-29 for a male, was £27,220 and for a male between 30-39 was £34,567. I think clubs are looking at this general data when setting membership prices, rather than looking at how much Mark Zuckerberg earnt before he was 30.

 

[patricks148]

It's getting interesting at ours at the moment. If anything women get a better deal than men. Ladies have tee times every Tuesday and Thursday morning and an hour and a half block bookings from 4.30 in the afternoon for women that work on those days too. They have also made all the Wednesday cup, Saturday medals and Sunday stablefords mixed events. There are only a handful of sat silver trophy comps but the are usually am only so women can still play on those Saturdays. There is not a single day a woman cannot play, but there are now 4 Saturdays where men can't play as there are ladies events on two opens a ladies captains day and pro am. They still think they are hard done by. The men have half a dozen matches against local clubs and a couple of others further a field, the ladies section thought it was unfair they couldn't play in these, despite they had 20 or more matches themselves some at open venues, but they just wanted to keep those for ladies only.
At the moment there are mutterings of getting rid of the ladies and senior sections and captains so it's all one club.

 

[Swango1980]

It's getting interesting at ours at the moment. If anything women get a better deal than men. Ladies have tee times every Tuesday and Thursday morning and an hour and a half block bookings from 4.30 in the afternoon for women that work on those days too. They have also made all the Wednesday cup, Saturday medals and Sunday stablefords mixed events. There are only a handful of sat silver trophy comps but the are usually am only so women can still play on those Saturdays. There is not a single day a woman cannot play, but there are now 4 Saturdays where men can't play as there are ladies events on two opens a ladies captains day and pro am. They still think they are hard done by. The men have half a dozen matches against local clubs and a couple of others further a field, the ladies section thought it was unfair they couldn't play in these, despite they had 20 or more matches themselves some at open venues, but they just wanted to keep those for ladies only.
At the moment there are mutterings of getting rid of the ladies and senior sections and captains so it's all one club.

Well, if they insist they should be allowed to play in these matches, then the compromise seems to be that men can play in the "ladies" matches I guess? At the club I was recently a member of, ladies, seniors and juniors could play all the main weekend club competitions. The main group of people banned from anything were men, as they were not allowed to play in the Senior competitions if under the age of 55, and were not allowed to play in the ladies competitions. Sounds a bit like your club. Don't get me wrong, not complaining about the deal I get, just an observation. Not sure about my new club, I don't think women can play in the weekend comps, or at least they choose not to. Haven't seen any yet.

 

[Ethan]

At the halfway hut at our place, there are men's and women's toilets. The men's toilet has a sign asking for gentleman to close the door while using the facility. No such sign in the ladies. Discrimination, if you ask me.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

As a male I have to do certain things to play golf at my club. I have to have my shirt tucked in. I have to have a collar on my shirt. I have to have fitted shorts that cannot be too short or too long. Yet it seems to be a free for all and women can dress as they please. What's that all about?

I'm also banned from playing at a certain time in the middle of the week. And the women refuse to let me through when they are holding me up after their allocated start times. For some reason they have to stay together in a pack hacking the ball 20yards each time they attempt to hit the ball. I am sure if I took 5 or 6 hours to complete a round and didn't let people through as a matter of principle something would be said.

The women also got access to the men's tournaments now. Which I have no problem with at all. But why can't I play in their midweek tournaments from a male tee? As they have no handicap limit surely rather than calling it the women's competition why not name is the high handicapper's comp?

The women have even had a toilet built at the halfway point which the men are now allowed to use! Whilst I can go for a wizz in the bushes if I need a crap am I expected to do that publically simply because I am a man?

I wondered if anyone else's club had this sort of sex discrimination? I'm not going to war to wear 3/4 length trousers and sleeveless tops. But if the women don't have to tuck their shirts in then I fail to see why I should. If your club has had these problems has anyone fixed it? I'm sorely tempted to claim to be a transitioning women so I can get the benefits which are denied to me simply because I was born with a penis.

Yours must be a member equity club.
I could never belong to one of those.
The self-importance of the committee members would make me homicidal.

I belong to a corporate owned club.
No huge initiation fee.
No assessments.
No membership committee to clear; the only thing that had to clear was my check.

Our club began life as a classic member equity club 115 years ago, shortly after you chaps taught us the game.
It went under circa 1970, and it was purchased from the creditors by a "legitimate business interest."
The 1906 Donald Ross layout was then beautifully restored.

The club is almost certainly a laundromat for revenues accrued elsewhere, but I could never afford a member equity club of comparable quality,
nor with my colorful background and ethnic name,
could I ever get past a stuffy membership committee.

We've got broads around. Don't see much of a problem. We can leave our shirts untucked if they're square-bottomed without tails--i.e., designed to be untucked.
No trouser restrictions except for no denim. Maybe if one played in a jock strap, somebody might object.

As part of the weekday playing geriatric crowd, slow playing ladies don't bother me.
I'm in no hurry, and some of them have decent asses.

 

[KenL]

?words fail me..?

 

[Neilds]

Yours must be a member equity club.
I could never belong to one of those.
The self-importance of the committee members would make me homicidal.

I belong to a corporate owned club.
No huge initiation fee.
No assessments.
No membership committee to clear; the only thing that had to clear was my check.

Our club began life as a classic member equity club 115 years ago, shortly after you chaps taught us the game.
It went under circa 1970, and it was purchased from the creditors by a "legitimate business interest."
The 1906 Donald Ross layout was then beautifully restored.

The club is almost certainly a laundromat for revenues accrued elsewhere, but I could never afford a member equity club of comparable quality,
nor with my colorful background and ethnic name,
could I ever get past a stuffy membership committee.

We've got broads around. Don't see much of a problem. We can leave our shirts untucked if they're square-bottomed without tails--i.e., designed to be untucked.
No trouser restrictions except for no denim. Maybe if one played in a jock strap, somebody might object.

As part of the weekday playing geriatric crowd, slow playing ladies don't bother me.
I'm in no hurry, and some of them have decent asses.

The 1800s have called, can you pop back when you are ready!

 

[chellie]

Yours must be a member equity club.
I could never belong to one of those.
The self-importance of the committee members would make me homicidal.

I belong to a corporate owned club.
No huge initiation fee.
No assessments.
No membership committee to clear; the only thing that had to clear was my check.

Our club began life as a classic member equity club 115 years ago, shortly after you chaps taught us the game.
It went under circa 1970, and it was purchased from the creditors by a "legitimate business interest."
The 1906 Donald Ross layout was then beautifully restored.

The club is almost certainly a laundromat for revenues accrued elsewhere, but I could never afford a member equity club of comparable quality,
nor with my colorful background and ethnic name,
could I ever get past a stuffy membership committee.

We've got broads around. Don't see much of a problem. We can leave our shirts untucked if they're square-bottomed without tails--i.e., designed to be untucked.
No trouser restrictions except for no denim. Maybe if one played in a jock strap, somebody might object.

As part of the weekday playing geriatric crowd, slow playing ladies don't bother me.
I'm in no hurry, and some of them have decent asses.

Wonder what the men's todgers are like?

 

[Neilds]

Wonder what the men's todgers are like?

Probably small - nothing grows in the shade!