Discrimination

[Ron McDonnell]

I am 80 years old with significant medical and mobility problems, however, I can still score in the mid 80’s gross. I have been playing since I was 15 years old and my handicap is 15.My golf club has blue lines across the fairways up to 30 mitres out in some cases with signs there to stay on the cart path until the next tee.
I presented a doctors letter and asked to be able to drive my cart to the 10 mitre mark from the green and I was denied. There are 400 people on the waiting list to join the club.
All I have asked for is to drive outside the 10 mitres around the green to help me with my health problems. The Match Committee, Captain and Vice Captain are not able to judge my physical situation in my opinion.
Any comments as golf is an inclusive sport and I think I am being discriminated against.

 

[Mandofred]

Glad I don't have to make that call......I can see it either way. From the golf course point of view if letting you "break the rules", others would start doing the same thing. Golfers are terrible about following the rules like that. Same during the winter when a lot of courses put out lines to keep trolleys away from the greens.....plenty of people just ignore them and it's why I often just carry during the sloppy months.....and most golf courses that I see around here completely ban riding machines during the winter.

 

[Oddsocks]

It’s great that you’ve had 65 years of golf and to maintain that Hc, we done sir.

With regards to the discrimination, I don’t see this as the case they are protecting the course and allowing it for one opens the gates. “ why can he drive there when we can’t in buggies “

I wouldn’t look at the club to be at fault, more modern society with no common sense and a high level of entitlement.

 

[Slab]

Hi Ron, I'm kinda with the guys above
while I sympathise, I don't see it that the ppl you mention are trying to 'judge your physical situation', they are judging the course situation & condition

I'm not sure what form you believe any discrimination is under. I wouldn't have thought the club are mandated to allow any/all requests from the membership that will make play easier or more convenient for each of them

I hope you find a solution and can continue to play as often as you can

 

[Neilds]

In my view it is not discriminatory as they are treating everyone the same. If you were granted permission to drive closer then others could claim they were being treated differently and therefore being discriminated against.
But as others say, tricky for the club to deal with.

 

[RichA]

I don't think you're being discriminated against - you aren't actually being denied access to any facilities in your description.
But I do think the arguments about other golfers behaviour are red herrings. If they take advantage of any adjustment made for your disability then that's their problem and the golf club's, not yours.
You need to have a grown up conversation with the management, not just the playing committee. Establish how close to tees and greens the greens staff take their vehicles and by what routes as a starter and seek a constructive solution before you accuse them of discrimination.
There's some advice and guidance for clubs and golfers on the England Golf website.
A club with a massive waiting list is also surely the type of place that has an equality policy or statement that you could look at and use.

 

[VVega]

Personally, I’d not think twice to see this as the case for an exception.

Saying they are not discriminating because they are not denying access is the same as saying the wheelchair user can use the stairs.

 

[Burnsey]

The line is for everyone, with everyone taken into account, so I do not see discrimination. The club could have a hundred members with different levels of disability - should they have different lines for different levels - or a full time medical expert to assess who can and can't access greens via a buggy?

How long have you been a member and is the line new, or did you join not realising?

As said, I do not see discrimination here, but whether an exception could be made is another subject.

 

[RichA]

Personally, I’d not think twice to see this as the case for an exception.

Saying they are not discriminating because they are not denying access is the same as saying the wheelchair user can use the stairs.

Not really.
The law requires reasonable adjustments.
Some rough golf courses don't have buggeys at all and wouldn't be safe.
Buses have wheelchair access but don't have lifts for the top deck.
The entire Southwest Coast Path isn't wheelchair accessible because it isn't reasonable. That's not discrimination.
There isn't enough information here to say that there OP is being discriminated against.

 

[IanM]

I'm wondering where Ron is as this was posted overnight uk time.

Local law and ground conditions will dictate what is relevant here.

Celtic Manor doesn't allow buggies off the paths as the terrain makes that unsafe. Same rule for everyone.

But, if it is safe and will not damage the course, I've seen several courses where exceptions are made on age/medical grounds to standard rules.

Is an appeal possible?

 

[VVega]

Not really.
The law requires reasonable adjustments.
Some rough golf courses don't have buggeys at all and wouldn't be safe.
Buses have wheelchair access but don't have lifts for the top deck.
The entire Southwest Coast Path isn't wheelchair accessible because it isn't reasonable. That's not discrimination.
There isn't enough information here to say that there OP is being discriminated against.

Don’t need the law to do the right thing. In my view, based on the info above, an exception could be given as these are reasonable grounds.

I wasn’t really commenting on/interested in whether the current actions fit into the legal definition of discrimination.

 

[RichA]

Don’t need the law to do the right thing. In my view, based on the info above, an exception could be given as these are reasonable grounds.

I wasn’t really commenting on/interested in whether the current actions fit into the legal definition of discrimination.

Agree 100%, hence the suggestion of arming himself with all available info and having a proper conversation with the actual club management rather than just golfing committee members.

 

[williamalex1]

My course ban buggies completely when there's been heavy rain, which is quite often here in Scotland and for most of the winter months it's carry only.

 

[r0wly86]

So you would be relying the Equality Act 2010

It is discrimination if a body doesn't provide reasonable adjustments for those who have a protected characteristic. Which include age and disability which are probably the two closest to your situation.

There is however no definition of what a reasonable adjustment is and would depend on the case details.

I would personally say allowing you to drive closer would be a reasonable adjustment as there is case law about providing alternative buggy roots to disabled golfer as a reasonable adjustment.

https://www.somersetladiesgolf.org/uploads/1/2/7/5/127527118/eg_-equality-guidance-june-2018.pdf

The link is some legal advice from England Golf regarding the Equality Act

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So you would be relying the Equality Act 2010

It is discrimination if a body doesn't provide reasonable adjustments for those who have a protected characteristic. Which include age and disability which are probably the two closest to your situation.

There is however no definition of what a reasonable adjustment is and would depend on the case details.

I would personally say allowing you to drive closer would be a reasonable adjustment as there is case law about providing alternative buggy roots to disabled golfer as a reasonable adjustment.

https://www.somersetladiesgolf.org/uploads/1/2/7/5/127527118/eg_-equality-guidance-june-2018.pdf

The link is some legal advice from England Golf regarding the Equality Act

I think there is doubt as to where the OP is from. I suspect it is not the UK and the act would not be relevant in this case.

However, saying that if anyone has a similar case in future and finds this thread in a search, the link in your post would be very useful

 

[Captain_Black.]

Whilst I sympathise with the op, the rule is clearly in place to protect the course for the majority.
In certain circumstances rules can be relaxed & exceptions made to aid others but not at the expense of the majority.

 

[KenL]

I am with the OP. A general ban for those who can walk is fine but exceptions should be made for disability groups.

The greens staff will probably be driving their vehicles on and around the greens at this time after all.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I am 80 years old with significant medical and mobility problems, however, I can still score in the mid 80’s gross. I have been playing since I was 15 years old and my handicap is 15.My golf club has blue lines across the fairways up to 30 mitres out in some cases with signs there to stay on the cart path until the next tee.
I presented a doctors letter and asked to be able to drive my cart to the 10 mitre mark from the green and I was denied. There are 400 people on the waiting list to join the club.
All I have asked for is to drive outside the 10 mitres around the green to help me with my health problems. The Match Committee, Captain and Vice Captain are not able to judge my physical situation in my opinion.
Any comments as golf is an inclusive sport and I think I am being discriminated against.

I should think that a club should care for its members more than its course--or at least as much.
Obviously not in the case above.

I play cards in the clubhouse on "cart path only" days.
There are plenty of dry days to play golf.

 

[pokerjoke]

The argument of protecting the course imo is just ridiculous.
Overall it wouldn’t make a jot of difference if many who we’re limited went another 20 yards further.

It’s like a course making everyone buy winter wheels (when science clearly states they make no difference)then machinery goes and cuts up the course far worse than any buggy would.

 

[jim8flog]

Our buggy route comes in to play on Health and Safety grounds and is not supposed to be for course protection (HaHa)
Using it on such a basis avoids the Act.