Discrimination

[clubchamp98]

Seriously?
We're talking about exceptions being made for a tiny minority to park lightweight golf buggeys slightly closer to a golf green, probably in the spot where the green keepers park their heavier vehicles.
Cost = zero.

We never park our vehicles in front of a green.
For one it’s dangerous if a golfer thins one through the temp.
Plus rutting the approaches to the putting surface.
We always try to approach from behind if poss.

Maybe this club need to sort a wet route at the back if possible.
Just not enough thought put into things like this.
Especially if the green staff don’t play golf ( seen this a few times).

 

[Mandofred]

Seriously?
We're talking about exceptions being made for a tiny minority to park lightweight golf buggeys slightly closer to a golf green, probably in the spot where the green keepers park their heavier vehicles.
Cost = zero.

Yes....seriously. In a perfect world where everybody follows the rules you would be right, and allowing this one person to drive closer to the green sounds great. However, golfers are a real pain in the butt about following rules. They just don't. They CAN'T be trusted to do the right thing. I don't believe this guy just wants to park within 10 meters.....I would bet he would drive closer than that, just like so many other golfers do. It would make his life easier to drive closer than 10 meters.... Let's say the committee agrees and lets him drive a little closer and then they find out he is driving even closer than that....what happens? Does he get banned from the course and ends up not playing anyway? Oh what the heck...why have any rules? Just let golfers walk/drive wherever they want and ignore everything....according to some people on here the golf course will recover anyway so why not let people do whatever they want?

 

[clubchamp98]

Yes....seriously. In a perfect world where everybody follows the rules you would be right, and allowing this one person to drive closer to the green sounds great. However, golfers are a real pain in the butt about following rules. They just don't. They CAN'T be trusted to do the right thing. I don't believe this guy just wants to park within 10 meters.....I would bet he would drive closer than that, just like so many other golfers do. It would make his life easier to drive closer than 10 meters.... Let's say the committee agrees and lets him drive a little closer and then they find out he is driving even closer than that....what happens? Does he get banned from the course and ends up not playing anyway? Oh what the heck...why have any rules? Just let golfers walk/drive wherever they want and ignore everything....according to some people on here the golf course will recover anyway so why not let people do whatever they want?

Yes agree.
People think the course repairs itself.!
But the green staff have to repair the tyre ruts etc on the fringes.
So they are not doing other things that need doing.

 

[Neilds]

Clubs should have a buggy policy

The policy will look at Health and Safety issues

Buggy routes are created for inclement weather to allow buggies still to be used but only on a route that won’t cause any health and safety issues

We have a traffic light system

Green - no restrictions but buggy users expected to use common sense to take care of the course - same for trolleys

Amber - buggies must use a pre approved route to ensure there are no issues for health and safety

Red - buggies not allowed on the course

This does not address the OP's question at all. His club has a policy and that is "no buggies with 30 yards of the green". He is wanting permission to go to within 10 yards due to his disability.

 

[RichA]

Yes....seriously. In a perfect world where everybody follows the rules you would be right, and allowing this one person to drive closer to the green sounds great. However, golfers are a real pain in the butt about following rules. They just don't. They CAN'T be trusted to do the right thing. I don't believe this guy just wants to park within 10 meters.....I would bet he would drive closer than that, just like so many other golfers do. It would make his life easier to drive closer than 10 meters.... Let's say the committee agrees and lets him drive a little closer and then they find out he is driving even closer than that....what happens? Does he get banned from the course and ends up not playing anyway? Oh what the heck...why have any rules? Just let golfers walk/drive wherever they want and ignore everything....according to some people on here the golf course will recover anyway so why not let people do whatever they want?

Have you tried decaf?

 

[Steve Wilkes]

I'm all for helping out with medical & mobility issues where possible, but I'm with Mandofred on this one. I don't know the circumstances of this guy, but I don't think this has nothing to do with 30 meters or 10 meters, but what this guy thinks is his right.
Getting in and out of a buggy, walking sometimes up to elevated teeing areas, in and out of bunkers, usually covering more than 20 paces to your ball on the green and up to the hole, and gets round in the mid 80's, but can't do what is no more than a few extra paces each hole.
It must be the bad weather today stopping me getting out on the course that has put me in this bad uncompassionate mood

 

[chrisd]

I was involved in disputes with my club on the use of trolleys and buggies. Firstly I'd suggest speaking to the experts at England Golf (EG) at Woodhall Spa -they know the requirements that golf clubs should abide by. Obviously trolleys and buggies are very different types of equipment but E.G. Include both together in their advice.

Many of the Clubs in Kent have introduced the traffic light system mentioned by Arthur Wedge a little earlier. Also E.G. Have local representatives in most counties who will talk to Clubs that are discriminating and give them advice as to how to proceed in the future. Care of the course as a reason for banning trolleys and buggies is not acceptable and Clubs have to understand that damage caused, generally in the winter. Will repair quickly when the weather improves.

Generally, if I recall, Clubs must open or close the course to everyone if there is a decision to be made, and anyone with a dispensation letter from a medical specialist must be allowed to use a trolley (electric or push) as a "carry only policy" is discriminatory by nature if everyone is obliged to carry. These rules don't allow for fit and healthy people to use a trolley or buggy where the Club decides to ban them. Buggies are more likely to be banned due to a health and safety judgement on the day, but Clubs are advised to use the traffic light method and, if they can, to open a route where a buggy user can at least play some holes if it's safe to do so.

Care of the course is not a reason for stopping any players from playing when the course is open.

 

[Slab]

I was involved in disputes with my club on the use of trolleys and buggies. Firstly I'd suggest speaking to the experts at England Golf (EG) at Woodhall Spa -they know the requirements that golf clubs should abide by. Obviously trolleys and buggies are very different types of equipment but E.G. Include both together in their advice.

Many of the Clubs in Kent have introduced the traffic light system mentioned by Arthur Wedge a little earlier. Also E.G. Have local representatives in most counties who will talk to Clubs that are discriminating and give them advice as to how to proceed in the future. Care of the course as a reason for banning trolleys and buggies is not acceptable and Clubs have to understand that damage caused, generally in the winter. Will repair quickly when the weather improves.

Generally, if I recall, Clubs must open or close the course to everyone if there is a decision to be made, and anyone with a dispensation letter from a medical specialist must be allowed to use a trolley (electric or push) as a "carry only policy" is discriminatory by nature if everyone is obliged to carry. These rules don't allow for fit and healthy people to use a trolley or buggy where the Club decides to ban them. Buggies are more likely to be banned due to a health and safety judgement on the day, but Clubs are advised to use the traffic light method and, if they can, to open a route where a buggy user can at least play some holes if it's safe to do so.

Care of the course is not a reason for stopping any players from playing when the course is open.

Good bit of info there when looking at discrimination in general, although I don’t think its applicable to the OP’s posted scenario

Course is open for play, weather is not a consideration. He would just like to drive his buggy closer to the green than is currently permitted by the club for carts, due to reduced mobility, but his request was declined

 

[D-S]

Care of the course is not a reason for stopping any players from playing when the course is open.

So if someone said they can only walk 10 or so paces, they would be able to drive their buggy onto the green? to drive up to the flag to remove it etc.

As the only reason this is currently not allowed is care off the course (green).

 

[Ron McDonnell]

Absolutely. I've been a member at 3 different courses in my area......huge amount of golfers just ignore all the different things the green staff put out to try to keep the course in better shape. Any attempt on my part to get them to stop would end up in a lynching.....and I don't want to be lynched.

I can still play good golf but I do have a lot of health problems and a lot of responsibility to do the right thing.

 

[Ron McDonnell]

Good bit of info there when looking at discrimination in general, although I don’t think its applicable to the OP’s posted scenario

Course is open for play, weather is not a consideration. He would just like to drive his buggy closer to the green than is currently permitted by the club for carts, due to reduced mobility, but his request was declined

I am in Australia!

 

[chrisd]

Good bit of info there when looking at discrimination in general, although I don’t think its applicable to the OP’s posted scenario

Course is open for play, weather is not a consideration. He would just like to drive his buggy closer to the green than is currently permitted by the club for carts, due to reduced mobility, but his request was declined

Quite right Slab, I just posted a general answer given the various other postings

The original poster is in Australia so it's unlikely that any of the points I've made would apply anyway. It's hopefully handy that anyone in the UK being discriminated against can help their Club to do things correctly

 

[chrisd]

So if someone said they can only walk 10 or so paces, they would be able to drive their buggy onto the green? to drive up to the flag to remove it etc.

As the only reason this is currently not allowed is care off the course (green).

Why post a ridiculous "what if" to a point that I made that was about whether buggies/trolleys are allowed.Given that , in bad weather, that buggies are likely to do some damage to the course - no one would assume that they would drive on to the green at any time.

 

[D-S]

Why post a ridiculous "what if" to a point that I made that was about whether buggies/trolleys are allowed.Given that , in bad weather, that buggies are likely to do some damage to the course - no one would assume that they would drive on to the green at any time.

I don’t think it’s a ridiculous what if, it is plausible. We already have people contravening the rules by driving over the apron and parking on the green’s edge.
If care if the course is not allowed as a reason to prevent buggies accessing certain parts of the course, does this extend to the tees or the green? The only reason that people are not allowed to drive on them or take trollies across them is care for the course.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sadly I think the golf club are within their rights, although if the OP were to test that legally it would be interesting to see the outcome. If a golfer sees another taking advantage (whatever that may be) then they will follow and so sooner or later more and more will park trollies close and closer. I wonder if the OP will pursue

 

[RichA]

I don’t think it’s a ridiculous what if, it is plausible. We already have people contravening the rules by driving over the apron and parking on the green’s edge.
If care if the course is not allowed as a reason to prevent buggies accessing certain parts of the course, does this extend to the tees or the green? The only reason that people are not allowed to drive on them or take trollies across them is care for the course.

This would be a decent rationale for banning buggeys and trolleys for able-bodied golfers; not so much for denying improved access to those with a medical need.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

This does not address the OP's question at all. His club has a policy and that is "no buggies with 30 yards of the green". He is wanting permission to go to within 10 yards due to his disability.

Would be no different to any other buggy user - you can only use a buggy at our place with a medical certificate anyway

 

[Swango1980]

Presumably the people that run the golf course have implemented this boundary either for course protection or safety? I doubt they have done it simply to give hassle to certain members, or discriminate against certain members?

If that is the case, I suppose the first question is why does the line need to be so far away from the green in the first place? Have they carefully evaluated this, and then chosen where the lines are to go? Or just haphazardly painted a line any old distance from the green? Even if it was a bit of a haphazard approach to begin with, had even one member brought this to the clubs attention, you'd think it would be easy enough for them to move the lines closer to the green, rather than be stubborn and say no?

Even if they relaxed the rule for one or 2 members in the club, this might lead to confusion and misunderstandings? I doubt it is practical to paint 2 lines everywhere, with one closer to the green that applies to specified members. And if specified members were allowed to breach the lines, this might lead to other golfers complaining and criticizing these golfers when they see it, not understanding they have permission to do so. So, I'd have thought it would be in the best interest of the club to allow buggies as close to greens as possible, which will not lead to the course damage they are looking to avoid / cause safety issues. Then stick with that limit on each hole for everyone

 

[chrisd]

I don’t think it’s a ridiculous what if, it is plausible. We already have people contravening the rules by driving over the apron and parking on the green’s edge.
If care if the course is not allowed as a reason to prevent buggies accessing certain parts of the course, does this extend to the tees or the green? The only reason that people are not allowed to drive on them or take trollies across them is care for the course.

"Care of the course" has been often the given reason for banning trolleys and buggies in inclement weather - E.G. argue that any damage on he course usually rights itself when the weather improves in springtime. No one is suggesting that it's ok to drive on to greens or tee boxes and this would not normally be allowed on most courses. Discrimination laws doesn't say that a golfer can drive where they like, this has to be a reasonable decision by the Club and the more informed clubs have a statement available to inform members who drive buggies, or use trolleys, what they are allowed to do, or not do.

Most of my posts are to let people know that golf clubs just can't say that you can only play if you carry and ignoring the discrimination laws

 

[Mandofred]

This would be a decent rationale for banning buggeys and trolleys for able-bodied golfers; not so much for denying improved access to those with a medical need.

Is playing golf a "need"? I wouldn't think so.