New women's tees

[Backache]

After a couple of whinges about articles on the GM front page, I thought this article was thought provoking and interesting. Though the headline doesn't do it justice.

'It’s Important That We Stop Confusing Distance With Ability' - Is This Model The Answer To A Fairer Golf Experience?

Meet the women who are on a mission to bring to life their vision that will create a better golf experience for everyone

www.golfmonthly.com

We recently seem to have fewer women on the forum possibly put of by the bickering (mine included)
However this seems to be promoting the possibility of much shorter tees for women golfers.
Now I know very well that a few women are very long hitters and I am not for a moment suggesting that they should be restricted to shorter tees but there are a fairly large proportion of the population for whom the current tees on offer are quite simply too long..

Both my wife and myself are mid 60's and whereas there are a couple of the par 4's played off the usual tees that I will only reach in two with very dry fairways and a decent wind behind me which is not the prevailing one, there is not a single par 4 on the course which my wife can comfortably reach in regulation. Should we be investing in much shorter tees to encourage more women into the game?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Irrespective of sex I think you simply need to pick tees suitable to your ability

 

[Backache]

Irrespective of sex I think you simply need to pick tees suitable to your ability

The point of the article is that there are very few places where such tees exists for a large proportion of women who play the game.

 

[MACM85]

In my opinion each tee should be rated for men and women and then they can choose what set of tee's suit their level of golf.

My Mrs the other week played in a mixed midweek comp. Signed in to play whites with the blokes. She had 4 or so guys question if that was a wise move as it is longer than playing off reds and wouldn't want her to struggle.

My Mrs hits her driver around 210 and her irons are a good distance. She can reach all par 4's at my place in two with two good shots. Even the par 5 she has a chance in getting on in 3 if the shots are good. I find it bizarre that in this day and age we try and target certain tee's for a specific sex.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

After a couple of whinges about articles on the GM front page, I thought this article was thought provoking and interesting. Though the headline doesn't do it justice.

'It’s Important That We Stop Confusing Distance With Ability' - Is This Model The Answer To A Fairer Golf Experience?

Meet the women who are on a mission to bring to life their vision that will create a better golf experience for everyone

www.golfmonthly.com

We recently seem to have fewer women on the forum possibly put of by the bickering (mine included)
However this seems to be promoting the possibility of much shorter tees for women golfers.
Now I know very well that a few women are very long hitters and I am not for a moment suggesting that they should be restricted to shorter tees but there are a fairly large proportion of the population for whom the current tees on offer are quite simply too long..

Both my wife and myself are mid 60's and whereas there are a couple of the par 4's played off the usual tees that I will only reach in two with very dry fairways and a decent wind behind me which is not the prevailing one, there is not a single par 4 on the course which my wife can comfortably reach in regulation. Should we be investing in much shorter tees to encourage more women into the game?

Surely the Handicap will balance it out

I often hear “can’t reach the par 4 in two” - but their handicap gives them a shot on that hole so it’s surely about what someone can reach a green in “net”

If someone has a handicap of 18 then they shouldn’t be reaching any green in regulation

As for ladies tees etc - a lot of the issues at most golf clubs are the ladies themselves - ours refuse to allow men or juniors to play off “their” tees and they have no interest in using the blue forward tees or the yellows or whites

 

[Backache]

In my opinion each tee should be rated for men and women and then they can choose what set of tee's suit their level of golf.

My Mrs the other week played in a mixed midweek comp. Signed in to play whites with the blokes. She had 4 or so guys question if that was a wise move as it is longer than playing off reds and wouldn't want her to struggle.

My Mrs hits her driver around 210 and her irons are a good distance. She can reach all par 4's at my place in two with two good shots. Even the par 5 she has a chance in getting on in 3 if the shots are good. I find it bizarre that in this day and age we try and target certain tee's for a specific sex.

I don't think anyone is trying to restrict tees to one sex in the article , congratulations to you r Mrs by the way.
The point is that the existing forward tees are still too long, it is a simple fact that by and large women are shorter hitters.

 

[Golfloveruk]

It would benefit lots of young juniors too.

 

[Backache]

Surely the Handicap will balance it out

I often hear “can’t reach the par 4 in two” - but their handicap gives them a shot on that hole so it’s surely about what someone can reach a green in “net”

If someone has a handicap of 18 then they shouldn’t be reaching any green in regulation

As for ladies tees etc - a lot of the issues at most golf clubs are the ladies themselves - ours refuse to allow men or juniors to play off “their” tees and they have no interest in using the blue forward tees or the yellows or whites

Just because someone's handicap is 18 does not mean they should not be able to reach a green in regulation . When my h/cp was 18 I was younger but more wayward I could reach every green in regulation but rarely did.

Not to have a chance of reaching any par4 in regulation takes some of the enjoyment away , I agree with the article let them have more forward tees.

 

[rulefan]

My Mrs hits her driver around 210

That is the distance a woman scratch golfer is expected to drive according to the rating manual. And 190 for the second. Par 4 for women is up to 420 (recommended).
What's her handicap?

As an aside, many women's tees are given the same hole par as the men's which can affect the CH calculation (CR-Par).

 

[Backache]

As for ladies tees etc - a lot of the issues at most golf clubs are the ladies themselves - ours refuse to allow men or juniors to play off “their” tees and they have no interest in using the blue forward tees or the yellows or whites

Missed this bit in my reply.
Our tees are all available to anyone however I can't really blame women who are reluctant to allow men to use their tees as they are usually very small and they probably don't want men to be making mush out of them firing irons with big divots on shorter holes.

Our junior tees are not measured and not real tees as is the case in a lot of courses.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Just because someone's handicap is 18 does not mean they should not be able to reach a green in regulation . When my h/cp was 18 I was younger but more wayward I could reach every green in regulation but rarely did.

Not to have a chance of reaching any par4 in regulation takes some of the enjoyment away , I agree with the article let them have more forward tees.

So if the tees were forward to allow you to reach the green in two then your handicap will be reduced to reflect that ?


When these articles are produced they never think about the rest of the membership , the cost implications , the design restrictions

It seems to be more about making the course easier and shorter for some

That’s dumbing down the sport

If someone can’t hit it far enough then work on it , try and build up swing speed , look to hit the ball further and better , work on the short game or from 100 yards in to help improve the game

Too many want the sport and courses to be changed to help them play better

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The point of the article is that there are very few places where such tees exists for a large proportion of women who play the game.

If a lady is of a decent standard, then look to the mens yellows (usually next back from the ladies) which will have been mapped and if they are very good look at the whites. We also have blues for juniors/seniors and if ladies are finding the usual red markers too long they can play from their. All the courses are assessed for slope

 

[KenL]

In my opinion each tee should be rated for men and women and then they can choose what set of tee's suit their level of golf.

My Mrs the other week played in a mixed midweek comp. Signed in to play whites with the blokes. She had 4 or so guys question if that was a wise move as it is longer than playing off reds and wouldn't want her to struggle.

My Mrs hits her driver around 210 and her irons are a good distance. She can reach all par 4's at my place in two with two good shots. Even the par 5 she has a chance in getting on in 3 if the shots are good. I find it bizarre that in this day and age we try and target certain tee's for a specific sex.

I think they are at my club.

 

[Backache]

So if the tees were forward to allow you to reach the green in two then your handicap will be reduced to reflect that ?


When these articles are produced they never think about the rest of the membership , the cost implications , the design restrictions

It seems to be more about making the course easier and shorter for some

That’s dumbing down the sport

If someone can’t hit it far enough then work on it , try and build up swing speed , look to hit the ball further and better , work on the short game or from 100 yards in to help improve the game

Too many want the sport and courses to be changed to help them play better

Under the current WHS the shorter course would have a lower rating so of course the course handicap would be reduced.

There is nothing against anyone increasing swing speed but genetically on average women are at a considerable disadvantage to men in this respect it is about giving them an equivalent challenge.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

That’s dumbing down the sport

If someone can’t hit it far enough then work on it , try and build up swing speed , look to hit the ball further and better , work on the short game or from 100 yards in to help improve the game

Too many want the sport and courses to be changed to help them play better

making it more accessible surely. Most courses have other tees already in placed that have a slope. What if people are too old or carry injuries. How do they get their speed up and who wants to spend the time and effort doing so if they are playing for fun. Who wants the sport changed?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Under the current WHS the shorter course would have a lower rating so of course the course handicap would be reduced.

There is nothing against anyone increasing swing speed but genetically on average women are at a considerable disadvantage to men in this respect it is about giving them an equivalent challenge.

The handicap system is there to give people an equivalent challenge - that’s its purpose - not changing courses to allow people to have the same challenge

 

[cunnini]

at our club there are 'beginner' tees - my twelve year old tees from these - often they are just in the fairway rather than it is a traditional tee box.

If you want to play a hole shorter than it is, why not walk down the fairway, put a tee in the ground and play from there (assuming just playing a casual round)?

 

[Slab]

Yeah I read the article and a few good points raised, particularly around course design options and the quality of ‘red’ tee placement
I’ve seem some god awful examples where a forward tee has clearly been shoehorned in and couldn’t’ve been designed that way with the same experience considerations afforded to it as the tips were
Some clubs will already be doing a range of things, others maybe not so much

As an option/alternative to what seems to be the default of giving under 35 men cheaper subs to increase membership. Perhaps clubs who don’t have enough tee options could invest in installing them (doesn’t take much to cut a prepared area on the existing fairway) and see if they can increase membership of women/kids and anyone else who is better suited to a shorter course layout

So instead of several clubs all vying for the same 25 year old male to join maybe its actually easier & more profitable to go for the 25 year old female… if you build it…etc

 

[MACM85]

That is the distance a woman scratch golfer is expected to drive according to the rating manual. And 190 for the second. Par 4 for women is up to 420 (recommended).
What's her handicap?

As an aside, many women's tees are given the same hole par as the men's which can affect the CH calculation (CR-Par).

She is currently 12.9 index. best score off reds 80. Best score off whites 86. Off our reds she would get 10 shots. Off whites she gets 16. It is a par 72 for her as two of the par 4's become par 5's for the women.

Her putting is average at best. If she could roll the ball well then it would drop quickly. Probably averages 6 3 putts a round

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The handicap system is there to give people an equivalent challenge - that’s its purpose - not changing courses to allow people to have the same challenge

Who is changing courses to have the same challenge. If it takes someone to move to a forward tee (and their handicap adjusted accordingly) to have an enjoyable game why not. Can a 70 year old off the reds really play against a 30 year old who is younger, more supple and can hit it further. No way is the older player making many of the par 4's in 2 so why not let play off the forward tees. Not everyone has the time, inclination or ability to improve short games. A very narrow view