wjemather
Well-known member
It is not misogyny to recognise factual differences, and separate ratings do not prevent women and men from competing together.
Rating and Slope
- Thread starter Danboy
- Start date
rulefan
Tour Winner
Can you name any physical game where men and women compete as equals. I don't count darts as physical.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
It should always be remembered that HI is only one factor in how may shots a player gets.
Theoretically it is possible for a player to get 4 shots on most holes and 5 on others by the time all the calculations are done.
Theoretically it is possible for a player to get 4 shots on most holes and 5 on others by the time all the calculations are done.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
several ( I agree it is only a lot of desire by some in authority to keep the two apart),
it could be done in badminton, squash, table tennis, curling as examples i.e sports where technical ability is more important than physical strength.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Horse racing, show jumping, sailing and some motorbike racing.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Height does not change continuously throughout adult life to a significant amount.
Changes in height, weight, strength do occur, but these changes are reflected in consequential changes to handicap. Usually.
The debate here is about two separate systems of handicapping (course ratings and slope ratings) and whether this is really needed.
I saw no "need" for CR-Par, but I have no difficulty living with it.
I see no immediate need for one handicapping system for all humans, but I would have no difficulty living with it. It makes sense.
A suitable adjustment could be max 54 for males and max 60 for females. Maybe, or something like this. Can't think of anything else that would be required at the moment.
I will give it more thought.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
You can tell there's a lot of closed golf courses today...........
wjemather
Well-known member
There were multiple suggestions to have separate ratings based on these variables. All such variables can cross from one side of the arbitrary line to the other at any time, including height.
Without making it significantly more complex than it already is (there would certainly be no reduction in the number of measurements needed), a one-size fits all Slope is not possible due to the near 50 yard difference between men and women of comparable age, fitness and skill.
rulefan
Tour Winner
'Could be' or 'is the usual way' ?
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
There is already a one size fits all slope for all men and a one size fits all slope for women.
There must be a tiny percentage of women who can not hit the ball as far as the shortest hitting man.
And there must be a small group of men who hit it further than the longest hitting woman.
I cannot see how these two small groups at the extremities of an imagined single handicap scale would be any more distorting than the four groups at the extremities of the two handicap systems that we currently have.
You say it would be, but you don't explain how.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Well the rating system expects all 'model' scratch men to hit the drive some 40 yards further than the 'model' scratch women.
Not really a small group.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
That is not the small groups that I mentioned.
1. percentage of all golfers who are female and hit the ball shorter than the shortest hitting male golfer.
2. percentage of all golfers who are male and hit the ball further than the longest hitting female golfer.
In this imagined single handicap system there will be a model scratch human - it will make no difference what gender that model scratch golfer is.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Go back and read your post #34.
You seemed to suggest that if men and women were handicapped together, we could be looking at 3 digit HI's?
And yet men and women can already compete together, and I am unaware of any women who need a 3 digit Course Handicap
I'm trying to figure out your logic?
The handicap system only needs a score, and have some predicted scores for golfers who can hit the ball various distances.
The handicap system shouldn't care whether the person hitting the ball is an elite amateur, a scratch junior male, a 80 Yr old man, or 8 year old junior who can't hit the ball over 80 yards.
Nor should it matter if the golfer wears a skirt
Yes, the sports where the machine/animal is the key component rather than the operator.
rulefan
Tour Winner
What handicap do you believe the 8 year old junior would have if a scratch player has an index of 0.0 if the 8 year old took 75 strokes to reach the greens on a 6000 yard course
Swango1980
Well-known member
54.0
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
That was exactly my handicap at the age of 9.
2 years later it was 27.
And I played from the same tees as the females as the club deemed this suitable for the under 12s. How very sensible that was. Barnsley municipal were ahead of their time.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Yeah, logical.
If everyone was handicapped the same, absolutely no need to have each set of tees separately rated for gender. Clubs would never need to say "these tees are not rated for women, or these ones not for men".
But, you play off tees that suit the golfers playing, pretty much like they do now anyway. Lady competitions will probably still be played off forward tees, but maybe have one comp a year where they go off back tees for a bit of "fun". Vice versa for men. Seniors may play off forward or mid tees. Def think it is a good idea there are some very forward tees for older Seniors or young juniors
Alan Clifford
Well-known member
I reckon the change will be led by low handicap women. They'll play with their (men) mates who'll say, "Ok, you're a +2 but that's from the noddy tees".
D-S
Well-known member
I really can't see a tiny fraction of a minority of golfers really leading a significant change to the WHS system for no apparent benefit to themselves.