WHS Part 2

[Lord Tyrion]

Thanks. Just to be clear, will ClubV1 now finalise the comp and publish results to HDID 'at the end of the day', or will the M&H Secretary still intervene checking and finalising the result? I assume ClubV1 will only update handicap records, not post the actual result.
Our PSI terminal is right next to the card box, btw, but you cant twist people's arm to enter the result, can you? I suppose it will just have to be part of the learning process for golfers who continually don't enter scores on PSI. I wanted to bring in a Code of Conduct penalty for continual offenders, but to be honest, the hardware is so unreliable that it would not be fair. (We have 3 comps a week, and in a year of processing cards, there has only ever been one comp where all sign ins have entered their scores on the computer.)

I'm struggling to get my head around this. At my place you have to enter the competition via the computer, in the hallway of the club. When finished, you enter your scores on the terminal, the scorecard box is directly underneath it. If you don't enter pre round you are not in the comp. If you don't enter your scores afterwards I would assume it is a DQ. Everyone follows this, not tricky. Like most clubs ours is largely elderly and they all manage.

Do you DQ cards not entered on the computer? If so the presumably it is just like people ripping their cards up so no change there. If not, you need to give a bit of tough love.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm struggling to get my head around this. At my place you have to enter the competition via the computer, in the hallway of the club. When finished, you enter your scores on the terminal, the scorecard box is directly underneath it. If you don't enter pre round you are not in the comp. If you don't enter your scores afterwards I would assume it is a DQ. Everyone follows this, not tricky. Like most clubs ours is largely elderly and they all manage.

Do you DQ cards not entered on the computer? If so the presumably it is just like people ripping their cards up so no change there. If not, you need to give a bit of tough love.

I don't believe you can DQ a player for not entering their score in the computer. It is not in the Rules of Golf. Instead, some clubs give warnings and competition bans

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I don't believe you can DQ a player for not entering their score in the computer. It is not in the Rules of Golf. Instead, some clubs give warnings and competition bans

Fair enough. I'm not involved in that side of things so I did not know for definite. I still don't understand why people do not do this, there is no excuse. It is just routine for everyone at our place, I would be amazed if people do not enter their scores. It is a Pavlovian response for everyone after a round.

 

[Swango1980]

Fair enough. I'm not involved in that side of things so I did not know for definite. I still don't understand why people do not do this, there is no excuse. It is just routine for everyone at our place, I would be amazed if people do not enter their scores. It is a Pavlovian response for everyone after a round.

Yeah, we had issues early on, as expected, but most enter their scores now. Although, occasionally, the odd player will leave without doing it, so the comp sec needs to do it for them (we've not got to the stage yet where we give out warnings). However, maybe around 5-10% of the time, the touch screen just is not working. Either a connection issue, freezes, etc. So, players just submit cards and then the comp sec needs to enter everything manually into Club V1

 

[Orikoru]

View attachment 28519

Christ, racism is rife down under isn't it? I can't believe they'd be allowed to have a tee only for black men. It's 2019 for goodness sake.

 

[YandaB]

I notice that your (stroke) Index has decimal points, is it dynamically changed ?

I assumed that was for Stroke Index holes 1-18,19-36 for when playing a 36 hole competition but I don't understand why they would be different though.

 

[louise_a]

I assumed that was for Stroke Index holes 1-18,19-36 for when playing a 36 hole competition but I don't understand why they would be different though.

Ah, its a comma not a point, never noticed that, maybe one figure is for stroke play and the other for matchplay

 

[Orikoru]

I assumed that was for Stroke Index holes 1-18,19-36 for when playing a 36 hole competition but I don't understand why they would be different though.

Ah, its a comma not a point, never noticed that, maybe one figure is for stroke play and the other for matchplay

My guess would be that if your handicap exceeds 18, the numbers 19-36 indicate which holes you get your second shot on. The purpose of this seems to be to ensure most people don't get two shots on the par 3s.

e.g. if you're off 5 you get a shot on the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 12th and 14th - par 3s in green. But if you are off 23, instead of getting two shots on those, you get two shots on the 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th and 16th, none of which are par 3s.

 

[YandaB]

My guess would be that if your handicap exceeds 18, the numbers 19-36 indicate which holes you get your second shot on. The purpose of this seems to be to ensure most people don't get two shots on the par 3s.

e.g. if you're off 5 you get a shot on the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 12th and 14th - par 3s in green. But if you are off 23, instead of getting two shots on those, you get two shots on the 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th and 16th, none of which are par 3s.

That sounds more plausible, I’m sure AS will confirm later.

 

[IanMcC]

My committee, as have many others, have a disciplinary procedure for players who do not either return cards or not use the PSI. In our case, one offence gets a reminder, a second gets a warning, a third gets a prohibition from play for a month. If they have a history of offending, they may be suspended. Different clubs have different scales of penalty of course.
I don't think we have had to impose more than one prohibition. All our members who are wary of tech simply ask another member to do it for them.
.

Does this apply to players who, for example, return their cards to the box but have NR'd for the comp?

 

[IanMcC]

...and Not updated the computer, I should have added.

 

[IanMcC]

Presently, after our qualifying comps stop in mid October, all of our winter comps are either 11 or 15 holes, all Stableford. The comps are Sunday, Wednesday and Friday. If you win or come second on a particular day the you lose 2 or 1 point for that day for the remainder of the winter. Works OK, with the winter prizemoney spread around a bit. Obviously your CONGU handicap re-applies when late march comes around, and the qualifiers start again.
I see that WHS-UK day is early November next year. Where will that leave us with our winter comps and handicap indices? They cannot be qualifiers because we preferred lie everywhere and rake and place in bunkers. Will the new system not kick in until qualifiers are resumed in March? Why make the start date in the winter season, if there will be no difference until the spring?
So many unanswered questions. I know it is a year away, but surely a roll out from the authorities must be imminent.

 

[rulefan]

Presently, after our qualifying comps stop in mid October, all of our winter comps are either 11 or 15 holes, all Stableford. The comps are Sunday, Wednesday and Friday. If you win or come second on a particular day the you lose 2 or 1 point for that day for the remainder of the winter. Works OK, with the winter prizemoney spread around a bit. Obviously your CONGU handicap re-applies when late march comes around, and the qualifiers start again.
I see that WHS-UK day is early November next year. Where will that leave us with our winter comps and handicap indices? They cannot be qualifiers because we preferred lie everywhere and rake and place in bunkers. Will the new system not kick in until qualifiers are resumed in March? Why make the start date in the winter season, if there will be no difference until the spring?
So many unanswered questions. I know it is a year away, but surely a roll out from the authorities must be imminent.

Many clubs play qualifiers through the winter.
But the WHS has no concept of 'qualifiers'. All scores over a minimum of 9 holes may count. There is a process for handling > 9 and < 18 completed holes

If the full details were rolled out to all players today, the majority would not remember what it is all about this time next year.
The counties are getting prepared for (or are already doing) presentations to club handicap secs/administrators now. I am assisting with our first tomorrow. Clubs will then be responsible for educating their members but too soon will be too soon.
But there is a lot of high level info on the web and where clubs have the facilities, they will encouraged to put it out on in-house TVs.

https://www.randa.org/WorldHandicapSystem

https://www.whs.com/

 

[IanMcC]

Many clubs play qualifiers through the winter.
But the WHS has no concept of 'qualifiers'. All scores over a minimum of 9 holes may count. There is a process for handling > 9 and < 18 completed holes

If the full details were rolled out to all players today, the majority would not remember what it is all about this time next year.
The counties are getting prepared for (or are already doing) presentations to club handicap secs/administrators now. I am assisting with our first tomorrow. Clubs will then be responsible for educating their members but too soon will be too soon.
But there is a lot of high level info on the web and where clubs have the facilities, they will encouraged to put it out on in-house TVs.

https://www.randa.org/WorldHandicapSystem

https://www.whs.com/

Thanks rulefan. When I requested a roll out, I meant for Handicap Secretaries.
My questions not really answered though. Maybe I need to wait for the GUW roll out. I still dont know how to run a winter comp as from November next year.

 

[Aussie Swinger]

My guess would be that if your handicap exceeds 18, the numbers 19-36 indicate which holes you get your second shot on. The purpose of this seems to be to ensure most people don't get two shots on the par 3s.

e.g. if you're off 5 you get a shot on the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 12th and 14th - par 3s in green. But if you are off 23, instead of getting two shots on those, you get two shots on the 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th and 16th, none of which are par 3s.

Mate, I believe you have solved the mystery yourself. I can only come to the same conclusion. I’ll check with pro on Saturday and post up once I have the definative answer for you.

 

[rulefan]

Mate, I believe you have solved the mystery yourself. I can only come to the same conclusion. I’ll check with pro on Saturday and post up once I have the definative answer for you.

As handicaps can go up to 54 how does that work for a handicap of 41?

 

[Aussie Swinger]

As handicaps can go up to 54 how does that work for a handicap of 41?

I’ll try to find out tomorrow from the pro. Think max handicap may currently only be 36 at the moment until the WHS change arrives. Like I said, I’ll ask and try to find out what I can.

 

[rulefan]

I’ll try to find out tomorrow from the pro. Think max handicap may currently only be 36 at the moment until the WHS change arrives. Like I said, I’ll ask and try to find out what I can.

I must say, I have never before seen different SIs allocated to different rounds.

 

[rulefan]

Orikoru is correct. GA says:

Indexing Holes for Players on Handicaps Above 18

A common practice is for the distribution of indexes to replicate the order used for players on handicaps of 1 – 18. eg. 1/19, 2/20, 3/21 etc. However, whilst holes with Index 1 and 2 may be the most difficult hole on the course for 1 and 2-markers, they may not be the most difficult holes for the 20-marker. Therefore, a split index may be more appropriate. Consideration of par 3s is the typical reason for a Committee to decide to use a split index. Generally, a high marker will find it relatively easy to make a bogey on a par 3 and therefore it would be too generous to allocate two handicap strokes on those holes. Analysis confirms that second strokes should not be given at the par 3s, except they could be allocated 33-36 in the handicap group 19 – 36.

 

[Orikoru]

As handicaps can go up to 54 how does that work for a handicap of 41?

I suppose at 37 you just go back to 1, etc? Although in theory you should take three shots on the the stroke 19 hole since the same must apply to your third shot as applied to your second shot and not wanting to give 3 shots on par 3s. Not sure about that one.