Course Handicap

[jamielaing]

Was wondering if someone can answer this query for me-

My handicap is 4.6 currently.

My course slope rating is 115. My understanding is that course handicap is slope rating/113 x handicap.

This gives 4.7 so a course handicap of 5 however the Scottish Golf app gives me a course handicap of 4. I tried this on another course with a rating of 128 and again it gave me a course handicap of 4.

This is without the playing handicap 95% applied.

So am I wrong in the calculation or is the app wrong? Ultimately it makes no difference to me however my curiosity is getting the better of me.

 

[Imurg]

Add Course Rating and minus Par...
New bit recently added

 

[D-S]

My understanding is that course handicap is slope rating/113 x handicap.

The calculation is now HI x slope/113 + (Course Rating - Par) = Course Handicap

So you need all these variable to calculate your CH (or more sensibly, just let the App do it).

 

[Swango1980]

Was wondering if someone can answer this query for me-

My handicap is 4.6 currently.

My course slope rating is 115. My understanding is that course handicap is slope rating/113 x handicap.

This gives 4.7 so a course handicap of 5 however the Scottish Golf app gives me a course handicap of 4. I tried this on another course with a rating of 128 and again it gave me a course handicap of 4.

This is without the playing handicap 95% applied.

So am I wrong in the calculation or is the app wrong? Ultimately it makes no difference to me however my curiosity is getting the better of me.

As others have pointed out, you are wrong with your calculation.

You'd have been correct pre April in the UK, but CR-Par was added to the calculation in April 2024.

 

[KenL]

I'm not very comfortable with the new system TBH.
6 at my own club but off 2 at an open I played in recently.
Course numbers (rating and slope) also seem way off at some clubs.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm not very comfortable with the new system TBH.
6 at my own club bur off 2 at an open I played in recently.
Course numbers (rating and slope) also seem way off at some clubs.

I suppose this would have been an issue before and after the changes anyway, if the ratings at certain clubs are way off? As all golfers handicap would be impacted in the same way from course to course.

 

[jamielaing]

Thanks folks, never knew about that change. That now makes sense.

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm not very comfortable with the new system TBH.
6 at my own club but off 2 at an open I played in recently.
Course numbers (rating and slope) also seem way off at some clubs.

Yes:
Mine just been re rated and gone from 129 to 120 bonkers.
It’s a difficult course no push over compared to local courses but is now rated lower.!

 

[rosecott]

Yes:
Mine just been re rated and gone from 129 to 120 bonkers.
It’s a difficult course no push over compared to local courses but is now rated lower.!

As I remember from your previous postings, you are talking about the reduction in slope, not course rating.

 

[clubchamp98]

As I remember from your previous postings, you are talking about the reduction in slope, not course rating.

Yes rated is a word used for multiple things!
Slope Rating isn’t it ?

I’ve heard “ I don’t rate you “ several times

 

[rulefan]

Yes rated is a word used for multiple things!
Slope Rating isn’t it ?

I’ve heard “ I don’t rate you “ several times

There are 3 terms used in reference to Rating in golf.
Course Rating
Bogey Rating
Slope Rating

The Course Rating is calculated from the effective playing length and obstacle factors for 9 or 18 designated holes.
The Course Rating is expressed in strokes to one decimal point and represents the expected score for a scratch player.
The Bogey Rating represents the expected score for a bogey player.
The difference between the Course Rating and the Bogey Rating is used in the determination of the Slope Rating.
A golf course of standard relative difficulty has a Slope Rating of 113.

 

[wjemather]

There are 3 terms used in reference to Rating in golf.
Course Rating
Bogey Rating
Slope Rating

The Course Rating is calculated from the effective playing length and obstacle factors for 9 or 18 designated holes.
The Course Rating is expressed in strokes to one decimal point and represents the expected score for a scratch player.*
The Bogey Rating represents the expected score for a bogey player.*
The difference between the Course Rating and the Bogey Rating is used in the determination of the Slope Rating.
A golf course of standard relative difficulty has a Slope Rating of 113.

* - when playing (and scoring) well.

 

[KenL]

There are 3 terms used in reference to Rating in golf.
Course Rating
Bogey Rating
Slope Rating

The Course Rating is calculated from the effective playing length and obstacle factors for 9 or 18 designated holes.
The Course Rating is expressed in strokes to one decimal point and represents the expected score for a scratch player.
The Bogey Rating represents the expected score for a bogey player.
The difference between the Course Rating and the Bogey Rating is used in the determination of the Slope Rating.
A golf course of standard relative difficulty has a Slope Rating of 113.

Does course rating include things such as:
Width of fairways
Severity of slopes on greens
Size of greens
Number of bunkers
Difficulty of bunkers
Number and proximity of penalty areas
Severity of rough
Number of shots where oob could be an issue
Number of blind shots
Etc.?

Is a "scratch player" someone with an index of 0, or a course hcp of 0?

 

[D-S]

Does course rating include things such as:
Width of fairways
Severity of slopes on greens
Size of greens
Number of bunkers
Difficulty of bunkers
Number and proximity of penalty areas
Severity of rough
Number of shots where oob could be an issue
Number of blind shots
Etc.?

Is a "scratch player" someone with an index of 0, or a course hcp of 0?

So to your initial questions all the above are exactly what the team spends its time assessing and measuring, plus a a lot of other features/difficulties for golfers such as carry, % of green surrounded by bunkers, density of trees, trees obscuring shot line, green speed, length of first cut, rough and extreme rough etc etc.
It is predominantly a measurement based system with in reality few judgement calls by the team - a few yards on carry and roll out due to uphill or downhill holes/fairway, whether a lay up is forced or choice but almost all the key data is measured and according to landing and roll out points for the model scratch and bogey player - these are the same for all courses to assure uniformity. Importantly not the scratch or bogey player that you know but a model one.

 

[cliveb]

So to your initial questions all the above are exactly what the team spends its time assessing and measuring, plus a a lot of other features/difficulties for golfers such as carry, % of green surrounded by bunkers, density of trees, trees obscuring shot line, green speed, length of first cut, rough and extreme rough etc etc.
It is predominantly a measurement based system with in reality few judgement calls by the team - a few yards on carry and roll out due to uphill or downhill holes/fairway, whether a lay up is forced or choice but almost all the key data is measured and according to landing and roll out points for the model scratch and bogey player - these are the same for all courses to assure uniformity. Importantly not the scratch or bogey player that you know but a model one.

These factors may be taken into account, but if you check the CRs of loads of courses, which have wildly differing hazards and other difficulties, you'll find that the CR seems fundamentally based on course length. Length is given too much weight compared to all the other stuff.

 

[KenL]

These factors may be taken into account, but if you check the CRs of loads of courses, which have wildly differing hazards and other difficulties, you'll find that the CR seems fundamentally based on course length. Length is given too much weight compared to all the other stuff.

I agree with that. Some shorter courses that I have played are very tricky and the CR is way less than par.
Example of that around here is Gifford GC. The greens are so slopey it is very tricky to avoid 3 putting in the summer.

 

[rulefan]

These factors may be taken into account, but if you check the CRs of loads of courses, which have wildly differing hazards and other difficulties, you'll find that the CR seems fundamentally based on course length. Length is given too much weight compared to all the other stuff.

Length is such a dominating factor because of the number of (intentional) strokes that the (model) scratch or bogey is expected to take.
Drive - scratch 250. bogey 200
2nd (and 3rd) - 200. 170 (total - 450, 370)

Given that a par 4 can be up to 490 yards the model players could often take 3 stokes to reach the green with the probability of 3 putts
(After 3 - 690, 540)

Par is an arbitrary number chosen by the club from a recommended range, whereas the number of strokes needed is based on those taken by the appropriate model. The two do not necessarily correspond.
Par was introduced into the CH calculation to satisfy the 36 points issue. It's pretty irrelevant otherwise for CR.

 

[Swango1980]

These factors may be taken into account, but if you check the CRs of loads of courses, which have wildly differing hazards and other difficulties, you'll find that the CR seems fundamentally based on course length. Length is given too much weight compared to all the other stuff.

Length is by far the most important factor though.

Handicaps are based on players better rounds. So, on tough days, if a player hits every bunker, penalty area, etc it doesn't really matter. 60% of rounds won't count towards Index calculation.

But, on good days, a player will miss most of the trouble. Either by good play, or luck. And, if they do get in trouble, recover well.

However, the length of the course can never be avoided. A player can have a good day on an open course 7000 yards long, but will still take quite a few more shots than they'd hit on a tight course 5000 yards long, assuming they had a good day on that as well.

 

[sunshine]

Length is such a dominating factor because of the number of (intentional) strokes that the (model) scratch or bogey is expected to take.
Drive - scratch 250. bogey 200

Are changes in elevation and wind factored in to these distances? E.g. if a tee shot is up hill and into the prevailing wind then the model scratch player may only drive it 200. If so, how is this calculated? Thanks.

 

[wjemather]

Are changes in elevation and wind factored in to these distances? E.g. if a tee shot is up hill and into the prevailing wind then the model scratch player may only drive it 200. If so, how is this calculated? Thanks.

All relevant factors are measured and accounted for.