Aussie Swinger
Newbie
J
Jesus, sometimes it’s like pulling teeth trying to explain things on here sometimes....
WHS Part 2
- Thread starter Aussie Swinger
- Start date
Swango1980
Well-known member
To be fair, when your opening comment in the thread looked like a couple of pages in an A-Level Mathematics statistics textbook, it's going to try and take some explaining for a lot of people. It was useful, of course, but until we get the official guidance on the WHS, and when we put it into practice, it's probably impossible to picture how it is actually going to work for most of us.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
You are not limited in that way.
Aussie Swinger was merely indicating how the switch over applied to himself, and a group of others, and is not part of the process to be applied upon implementation.
There will be the standard calculation and, subject to a sanity check across to existing handicap, most will go through automatically at the level the new system calculates. At mid teen handicap levels most players are expected to have a handicap index around 1 stroke higher than their current CONGU handicap (based on the technical differences in calculation routines for the same historical scores).
For those where the difference is outside the sanity check parameters the committee will have to consider the new allocation (typically these will be players who have returned insufficient cards to warrant a system driven AR previously and have effectively fallen under the radar for a significant period, or haven't been increased under the AR despite triggers for whatever reason, and need 'sorting').
Basically the concern you raise here is groundless.
cliveb
Head Pro
Wow. Just wow. Here's what you said:
Now, if you're saying that this was telling me look at the initial posting you made in this thread, then I have some news for you:
1. Nowhere in that initial post is there a link to a website where you can log in with a unique ID to view your previous 20 rounds.
2. As it happens I already knew everything you explained in that initial post, so please get off your high horse.
Let me ask it again: where is this website you mention on which I can enter my unique ID to see my previous 20 rounds and have the best 8 highlighted?
Without answering for AS, we have not gone over to this system yet so I would imagine our unique ID's don't exist, our details / rounds are not there. They are for him because he is already playing under this system. Only guessing but it seems logical.
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 13,374
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
Well, I currently have a CDH Number and all my recorded scores are on MasterScoreboard.co.uk so the infrastructure exists.... if not necessarily a uniform one! (Eg other clubs use HowBadlyDidIDo.com etc!)
robinthehood
Hacker
Doesn't exist yet for us.
Well the last 20 rounds do, mine are in hdid and I can use them to give me an idea of what my whs will be.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Comps don't need to be finalized. They are taken as you enter your score into the psi.
Swango1980
Well-known member
What I meant was, what if you don't enter it in the PSI for whatever reason. You forget, or the system is down (it happens at our place from time to time, and the comp sec needs to manually enter everything). Either way, it will need to be entered at some point, and that may mean a wait for the competition secretary to sort it out, who is perhaps away for the weekend.
rulefan
Tour Winner
You have an England or Scotland CDH ID at the moment. The WHS IDs have not yet been issued for the CONGU area. It is not yet clear here if the new numbers will be unique around the world or if there will be some sort of national prefix.
rulefan
Tour Winner
There is already a requirement in the Rules of Golf to enter scores asap. In addition the WHS also has that requirement. The premise is that apps will be available for every type of device (PSI, PC, tablet, smartphone and ultimately gps) to enable hole by hole scores to be entered on the run. All clubs are expected to provide PSI facilities as part of their licence agreement. But I understand that there will/may be assistance available for clubs which haven't got decent facilities.
The software will (I am told) be infinitely more user friendly to non IT savvy users than now.
If handicap secs do not close the comp on time the score will go through anyway and if necessary can be corrected. BUT these scores are only sent to the WHS system for handicap processing overnight. Competition processing will be done by the club's ISV software when the comp is closed - possibly days later.
Swango1980
Well-known member
OK, and I understand this, but this is one of my concerns.
Although I agree that committees need to close comps and process cards asap, it is not always done. Often for innocent reasons. However, the current system allows for this, and says that if a competition is not closed, the player is responsible for their own handicap. So, if their score was not entered on the Saturday, and the system has no record of that score (i.e. not a matter of whether comp has been closed, the score simply has not been entered anywhere), then the player MUST make a downwards adjustment to their handicap if applicable based on CSS = SSS. Otherwise they are disqualified, if they play off their past handicap which would have been higher.
For the WHS, how is this situation dealt with? The Saturday score has literally been entered nowhere. OK, maybe an app exists that a player can enter their score, but would this app become compulsory under the rules. What about players who don't know what a smart phone is let alone an app? Will each club have a terminal in which a player, home or away, can easily find themselves, enter yesterdays score that wasn't already entered, and it will tell them their new handicap index? If not, then do they need to adjust themselves. If yes, and that system is down, do they need to do it themselves?
It just seems to me that, with the existing CONGU system it is easy to make the self-adjustment. Even if a player individually does not understand it, there should be someone there that can do it for them. However, under the WHS system, there is no way a player can work it out for themselves in their head. It relies heavily on technology to do it for them, and so if that technology is down I wonder if the manual can still say the player is responsible for their own handicap when they have no way of calculating it without the tech.
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 13,374
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
What do you mean English or Scottish boyo??
Ok, serious reply... if current data sets exist in usable format it would be daft not to make use of them. (Which probably means a whole new set of numbers!
)
Junior
Tour Winner
Interesting insight AS - thanks for posting. I'm sure it wont be as complicated as it appears.
How will initial handicaps be calculated ? Will our handicaps stay as they are at the start, or, will they all change based on the calculations mentioned in the OP ?
Another thought...... How will the initial handicap calculations work whereby a player has a no return ? Does the system consider it a net double ? What happens if a player has NR'd his whole card on the computer (i've never but know it happens).
How will initial handicaps be calculated ? Will our handicaps stay as they are at the start, or, will they all change based on the calculations mentioned in the OP ?
Another thought...... How will the initial handicap calculations work whereby a player has a no return ? Does the system consider it a net double ? What happens if a player has NR'd his whole card on the computer (i've never but know it happens).
Springveldt
Well-known member
Are you just being facetious or did you totally miss the point of his replies?
Since you aren't in Australia and don't have an Australian unique ID obviously you personally will not be able to log in.
Springveldt
Well-known member
Found this on the interwebs a few months ago. Yes, you have to sanitise your scores to be a max of net double on each hole.
https://www.mapperleygolfclub.org/assets/galleries/525/p32_transition.JPG
I was bored a couple of months ago and did a spreadsheet to check what my transition handicap index would be. At the time I was off of 9.1 on the CONGU system and my WHS index turned out to be 8.7. With my club having a slope of 139 that meant my Course Handicap was 11, which is the same as my 9.1 + 2 shot buffer, so nothing changed really.
cliveb
Head Pro
Well I guess I must have missed the point of his replies.
He told me I could log in somewhere to find out my last 20 rounds and which were the best 8.
I never for a moment imagined that he thought he was only helping Australians, so I asked seems a reasonable question (ie. what is this website?)
If no such facility exists for non-Australians, why did he imply it did?
Springveldt
Well-known member
I didn't think he implied it. I think you have miss-interpreted the "you can log in" part, he wasn't specifically speaking directly to you it was a general you. He was just giving an example of what the Australians currently do and what the UK can expect when the system goes live.
cliveb
Head Pro
Take a look at post #37 in this thread. He was responding directly to something I said and strongly implied that anyone would be able to do it.
If he was trying to say that the rest of the world can expect in the future to get something like the current Australian system, he was doing so in a rather cryptic manner.
There's a problem with online posting - you really need to be careful to make sure that the context of what you're saying is crystal clear, otherwise it's open to misinterpretation.
Swango1980
Well-known member
To be fair to him, from post number 37, I would read that as a general you, rather than a direct you. After all, he was comparing the future system to the current aussie system all along.
Probably more of an issue with the English language. Perhaps replacing the word you with one or we may have clarified it.
