Changes to WHS in April 2024

[Alan Clifford]

Personally I would be doing away with boards, we need to get players using the technology at their disposal and they will just serve to confuse when players realise their own calculation doesn't match up to the printed cards value for playing handicap.

I play a lot of 9 holers at home. They don't have 9 hole boards.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I've read the link to golf England but not this whole thread. Am I correct to say that the way your handicap index is calculated will remain unchanged and these changes should not have any impact on your index?

My understanding is that the add-on for 9 holes not played (added to a 9 hole round) will change but probably only by a nano-tad.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Am I having a brain fart here regarding the 4BBB criteria. "One player of the pair must have scored on a minimum of 9 holes". Surely, one player will always score on 9? If player A scores on 8, player B will score on 10. And vice versa.

Ah, maybe the light has come on. They must mean "win" 9 holes.

 

[Swango1980]

Am I having a brain fart here regarding the 4BBB criteria. "One player of the pair must have scored on a minimum of 9 holes". Surely, one player will always score on 9? If player A scores on 8, player B will score on 10. And vice versa.

Ah, maybe the light has come on. They must mean "win" 9 holes.

How can you win 9 holes in stroke play? I'm pretty sure 4BBB match play is still not going to be acceptable for handicap

I suspect they mean that the player that scores on at least 9 holes will be the one potentially gets the score added to their record. That is interesting in itself. You could have a steady player that scores on 10 holes, with lots of 2 pointers and maybe the odd 1 or 3 pointer. The other guy could score on 8 holes, mostly 3 pointers and maybe the odd 4 pointer. Overall, that chap could have beat the steady guy had they both scored over 18 holes, but it is the steady guy with a worse score that is the one that gets cut.

I'm guessing if players wanted to avoid too big a cut, if one player is scoring heavy points on holes, just make sure you don't count his score when the other guy matches his score on a hole.

 

[clubchamp98]

How can you win 9 holes in stroke play? I'm pretty sure 4BBB match play is still not going to be acceptable for handicap

I suspect they mean that the player that scores on at least 9 holes will be the one potentially gets the score added to their record. That is interesting in itself. You could have a steady player that scores on 10 holes, with lots of 2 pointers and maybe the odd 1 or 3 pointer. The other guy could score on 8 holes, mostly 3 pointers and maybe the odd 4 pointer. Overall, that chap could have beat the steady guy had they both scored over 18 holes, but it is the steady guy with a worse score that is the one that gets cut.

I'm guessing if players wanted to avoid too big a cut, if one player is scoring heavy points on holes, just make sure you don't count his score when the other guy matches his score on a hole.

every matchplay I have played in we have never marked a card.!

Will this be mandatory, if so just record both players scores.

I really can’t see how what your partner scores should have an impact on your handicap. Just madness!

 

[Swango1980]

every matchplay I have played in we have never marked a card.!

Will this be mandatory, if so just record both players scores.

I really can’t see how what your partner scores should have an impact on your handicap. Just madness!

As I said in my post, match play is still not acceptable for handicap. So no need to mark your scores

 

[rulefan]

What I have seen over the years here, the high handicappers win most times, low marker has to play his socks off and then he most probably will lose if high handicapper plays close to their handicap.

How did the low marker get to be low if the high capper only plays close to their handicap? Surely the low capper must have 50%ish of his 8 scores below his Index.
Are you saying a low capper will not play close to their handicap when playing a higher capper?

 

[rulefan]

every matchplay I have played in we have never marked a card.!

Will this be mandatory, if so just record both players scores.

I really can’t see how what your partner scores should have an impact on your handicap. Just madness!

Information document for Counties & Clubs regarding the 2024 Rules of Handicapping Update
As of 1 April 2024, scores from four ball (such as Strokeplay, Stableford and Par/Bogey) will be acceptable for handicap purposes in GB&I.

 

[AussieKB]

You're implying that a low handicapper "playing their socks off" doesn't play to their own handicap because they "probably will lose" to a higher handicapper not playing to theirs. Are you sure about that?

Yes...have seen it plenty of times, low marker plays to his handicap and high marker plays over and wins, it is just treated as the norm here,
at two clubs I am a member they do not have handicap knockouts because low markers do not enter anymore so overall interest has waned.

I've shot under par off a 4 handicap and lost easily to a 20-36 marker who did nothing special, he also just expected to win all his shot holes, all pressure on low marker not to make a bogey, in our normal game on Wednesday's comp we always have a 4bbb between ourselves matchplay, no one wants me as I have to make birdies for halves, quite funny.

8 of us normally play, throw the balls in the air and listen to the groans, handicap me 4, then 12, 16, 18, 19, 25, 26 & 26
I made birdie on a hole and still lost it, the high guys will have at least two 4 pointers a round, last week we were 4 down after 9 holes, playing against the 12 & 26 marker, the 12 turned with 20 points and the 26 turned with 24 points, he collapsed on the back nine (no handicap change) but the damage was done, I had 35 points by the way.

 

[clubchamp98]

How did the low marker get to be low if the high capper only plays close to their handicap? Surely the low capper must have 50%ish of his 8 scores below his Index.
Are you saying a low capper will not play close to their handicap when playing a higher capper?

Playing close to your handicap can still be under par ! Just not stupid under.
so if low man plays to his cap he will lose.

 

[Backsticks]

Playing close to your handicap can still be under par ! Just not stupid under.
so if low man plays to his cap he will lose.

Score relative to par has no relevance. Its a handicapped match - only score relative to HI matters.

If the high hi player wins when the low hc has played his socks off, its because the high hi has played his socks off even better. It probably looks mediocre to the low man though, who is just not seeing how well the high has played relative to his hi.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes...have seen it plenty of times, low marker plays to his handicap and high marker plays over and wins, it is just treated as the norm here,
at two clubs I am a member they do not have handicap knockouts because low markers do not enter anymore so overall interest has waned.

I've shot under par off a 4 handicap and lost easily to a 20-36 marker who did nothing special, he also just expected to win all his shot holes, all pressure on low marker not to make a bogey, in our normal game on Wednesday's comp we always have a 4bbb between ourselves matchplay, no one wants me as I have to make birdies for halves, quite funny.

8 of us normally play, throw the balls in the air and listen to the groans, handicap me 4, then 12, 16, 18, 19, 25, 26 & 26
I made birdie on a hole and still lost it, the high guys will have at least two 4 pointers a round, last week we were 4 down after 9 holes, playing against the 12 & 26 marker, the 12 turned with 20 points and the 26 turned with 24 points, he collapsed on the back nine (no handicap change) but the damage was done, I had 35 points by the way.

On the flip side, I've shot a worse score against my handicap than an opponent with a high handicap yet still won. They've probably had several high scoring holes which they win outright and contributed to their better individual score, but I still managed to chip away and beat them in more holes overall, albeit by a lesser margin on each hole.

Match Play can be funny like that. My mate used to keep all types of scores when we went out as a 4 ball. Singles strokeplay, stableford, match play for each possible singles match and pairs match play for each possible pair. He then chose all the formats at end which he ended up winning. He could lose the singles stroke play, but then point out who he would have beat in match play both in singles, and in 4BBB. He was the lowest handicapper as well

 

[wjemather]

Yes...have seen it plenty of times, low marker plays to his handicap and high marker plays over and wins, it is just treated as the norm here,
at two clubs I am a member they do not have handicap knockouts because low markers do not enter anymore so overall interest has waned.

I've shot under par off a 4 handicap and lost easily to a 20-36 marker who did nothing special, he also just expected to win all his shot holes, all pressure on low marker not to make a bogey, in our normal game on Wednesday's comp we always have a 4bbb between ourselves matchplay, no one wants me as I have to make birdies for halves, quite funny.

8 of us normally play, throw the balls in the air and listen to the groans, handicap me 4, then 12, 16, 18, 19, 25, 26 & 26
I made birdie on a hole and still lost it, the high guys will have at least two 4 pointers a round, last week we were 4 down after 9 holes, playing against the 12 & 26 marker, the 12 turned with 20 points and the 26 turned with 24 points, he collapsed on the back nine (no handicap change) but the damage was done, I had 35 points by the way.

If a low handicapper plays to their handicap they will beat a higher handicapper playing over their handicap the vast majority of the time. This is an indisputable statistical fact.

Your 20-36 handicapper may not have done anything special relative to your game, but relative to their own normal game, they were sensational. Higher handicappers are allowed to score well, and very occasionally, that means a score that is out of the scope of lower handicappers - but the majority of the time, they don't even score particularly close to their handicap, and they certainly don't have 4 pointers every time they play. If they did, their handicaps would be lower.

 

[Voyager EMH]

If a low handicapper plays to their handicap they will beat a higher handicapper playing over their handicap the vast majority of the time. This is an indisputable statistical fact.

Your 20-36 handicapper may not have done anything special relative to your game, but relative to their own normal game, they were sensational. Higher handicappers are allowed to score well, and very occasionally, that means a score that is out of the scope of lower handicappers - but the majority of the time, they don't even score particularly close to their handicap and they certainly don't have 4 pointers every time they play. If they did, their handicaps would be lower.

I'm 4.3 and the majority of the time I don't even score particularly close to my handicap. Very, very rarely do I score a 4-pointer.

In my 20 scores there are only two below 4.3. The other 6 of my best 8 range from 4.5 to 6.2.
10% of the time I have played below my current handicap.

My anecdotal story is that I am wasting my time in the club handicap knockout. Had a bit of a chance when shots were 75% of difference.
I've won the scratch knockout 3 times and been runner-up twice.
Overall, I've not much to whinge about.

 

[clubchamp98]

Score relative to par has no relevance. Its a handicapped match - only score relative to HI matters.

If the high hi player wins when the low hc has played his socks off, its because the high hi has played his socks off even better. It probably looks mediocre to the low man though, who is just not seeing how well the high has played relative to his hi.

Yes I agree .
but we all know a low man playing his socks off might be 3/4 under his Index.
A high man can shoot 7/8 under his that rarely happens to the low man.

all I was saying was in response to “ how the guy got low in the first place” in post 211.
it dosnt have to be over par To be close to cap.

 

[Crow]

Yes I agree .
but we all know a low man playing his socks off might be 3/4 under his Index.
A high man can shoot 7/8 under his that rarely happens to the low man.

all I was saying was in response to “ how the guy got low in the first place” in post 211.
it dosnt have to be over par To be close to cap.

So it does happen to a low man?

With all I've been reading I thought a low man would only ever shoot 1 or 2 under handicap at most, and then only once a year.

 

[clubchamp98]

So it does happen to a low man?

With all I've been reading I thought a low man would only ever shoot 1 or 2 under handicap at most, and then only once a year.

Played with a scratch man who shot 65 gross 7 under at my club in Club Championship.
Course record for am.
Only 65 I have witnessed in 40 yrs.

so yes it does happen but he was knocked out the Matchplay the same week by a 15 capper.
Thats golf.!

 

[Voyager EMH]

Yes I agree .
but we all know a low man playing his socks off might be 3/4 under his Index.
A high man can shoot 7/8 under his that rarely happens to the low man.

all I was saying was in response to “ how the guy got low in the first place” in post 211.
it dosnt have to be over par To be close to cap.

More like very very very rarely.

1977 - won a comp with 69 - 8 = 61 (par 69 SSS 69)

2019 - won a comp with 69 - 6 (5.6) = 63 (par 70 SSS 71)

8-under handicap both times.

This year best score was SD = 0.2
4.1 under my current HI.
It was my best score for over 3 years.

If I play matchplay against someone who shoots 2 or 3 below his handicap, I have very very little chance of winning, because I very very rarely play that much below mine.

 

[wjemather]

If I play matchplay against someone who shoots 2 or 3 below his handicap, I have very very little chance of winning, because I very very rarely play that much below mine.

The same applies to all players regardless of their handicap, unless they are (rapidly) improving.

 

[clubchamp98]

More like very very very rarely.

1977 - won a comp with 69 - 8 = 61 (par 69 SSS 69)

2019 - won a comp with 69 - 6 (5.6) = 63 (par 70 SSS 71)

8-under handicap both times.

This year best score was SD = 0.2
4.1 under my current HI.
It was my best score for over 3 years.

If I play matchplay against someone who shoots 2 or 3 below his handicap, I have very very little chance of winning, because I very very rarely play that much below mine.

Yes my history over time is very similar.
best is 68 gross off 4 to win twice this is my lowest gross anywhere.


There is a misconception by golfers that low handicappers play well all the time.
Thats just not true.

Its the same for high handicappers but there are a lot more of them so just looks like.

in my experience over the years it’s the 12/16 cappers that beat me most as they can play the game and have enough shots to be cautious when they need to play safe.

I don’t mind getting beat if I play well but hate it if I play crap and feel I just gifted them several holes.

Great game but very frustrating as well.