GM Top 100 rankings - live Q&A today 1-3pm

[Foxholer]

a good question. In general you do get what you pay for but there are a few exceptions where we feel it's over priced (Wentworth West and Kingsbarns - both on the slide becuase of this) and more than a few where you get particularly good value...off the top of my head
Silloth
Royal St David's
Royal North Devon
Aberdovey
Liphook
Trevose
Sherwood Forest
St Enodoc
Portmarnock Links

NB a lot of these are what you;d call out of the way courses

I wouldn't describe St Enedoc (Church) as 'particularly good value' for the standard Visitor's rate for a round. But for either Twilight of a Day Ticket, it certainly is!

I'm sure both Wentworth and Kingsbarns (to a lesser degree) set the price to moderate Visitor demand. And to be in same league as 'Top of the World' courses like Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Pine Valley, Torrey Pines etc.

Excellent thread and thanks for the time guys! :clap:

 

[matt611]

I wouldn't describe St Enedoc (Church) as 'particularly good value'

Mark Crossfield has just played St Enodoc and I have to say it doesn't look that special, rather cramped infact. This could just be the effects of looking at it in 2d. It does look quirky though

 

[richart]

I wouldn't describe St Enedoc (Church) as 'particularly good value' for the standard Visitor's rate for a round. But for either Twilight of a Day Ticket, it certainly is!

Excellent thread and thanks for the time guys! :clap:

£75 a round in summer and £45 in winter is cracking value for a course the quality of St Enodoc.:thup:

 

[Junior]

Great read :cheers:

 

[Foxholer]

£75 a round in summer and £45 in winter is cracking value for a course the quality of St Enodoc.:thup:

Burnham & Berrow, a few places 'better' is pretty much the same - so probably just missed from Mike's list. Hillside too! But certainly those ones are in amongst some quite/very expensive ones.

A huge plus of the Church course, for me, is the powerful, but very pleasant aroma of the Camel Estuary!

 

[patricks148]

From Rob Smith
The Top 100 rankings are revised every two years. Such is the competition and the need to improve, that clubs that are just as good as they were two years before tend to drop a little. This is because they are overtaken by others that have upgraded or got themselves into tip-top condition. In addition, the oldest of our rankings, 10 years ago, did not have the benefit of such solid criteria, or time and effort from all those involved in the process. There has naturally, and rightly, been some revision to address the early imbalances. So yes, a Top 100 can drop into the Next 100, and a Next 100 can drop into the Third 100…. no don’t get us started !!

MH to add my bit...
Killarney was at 87 but others were indeed in the 90-100 bracket
as Rob said we know a lot more than we did at the start - when I inherited the ranking Dornoch was in the 50s! And, as they progress we feel we get it a little bit more 'right' each year so there is less volatility. It's my view other rankings have excessive volatility to try and stir talking points

That's very interesting Mike, as you mentioned Dornoch what had changed to make it go from 50 odd into the top 10?

I can appreciate a new course going in at a high ranking but almost 40 places seems a lot!

 

[JezzE]

That's very interesting Mike, as you mentioned Dornoch what had changed to make it go from 50 odd into the top 10?

I can appreciate a new course going in at a high ranking but almost 40 places seems a lot!

I think what Mike is saying is that he inherited a set of rankings from before the panellist system was put in place in which Dornoch was way out of kilter, and that has been gradually remedied over the years, based on both continuing feedback from panellists and what we all know of the course from our visits over the years.

 

[patricks148]

I think what Mike is saying is that he inherited a set of rankings from before the panellist system was put in place in which Dornoch was way out of kilter, and that has been gradually remedied over the years, based on both continuing feedback from panellists and what we all know of the course from our visits over the years.

Thanks, Jezz, that makes sense.

 

[richart]

Burnham & Berrow, a few places 'better' is pretty much the same - so probably just missed from Mike's list. Hillside too! But certainly those ones are in amongst some quite/very expensive ones.

A huge plus of the Church course, for me, is the powerful, but very pleasant aroma of the Camel Estuary!

South West courses tend to be great value, compared to the Surrey/ Berkshire courses I play.

 

[MikeH]

Thanks, Jezz, that makes sense.

Jezz was being polite Patrick! The list he and I inherited was put together by some well intentioned but clueless people! There were a few other howellers like Notts (Hollinwell) at 99

We had to make some major changes and felt could only do that over the course of a couple of rankings. Broadly speaking we think we have it now where it's not 'right' because it can't be that but at least we can argue our corner on pretty much anything.

Dornoch at 50odd still sends a shiver down my spine!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Mark Crossfield has just played St Enodoc and I have to say it doesn't look that special, rather cramped infact. This could just be the effects of looking at it in 2d. It does look quirky though

I take it you haven't played St Enodoc Matt? Quirky....yes, but it is a brilliant test of golf. I play it every year in their open off the very back tees and it is an absolute brute. It is probably my favourite course in England and I strongly recommend that if you get the chance to play it then do so :thup:

 

[patricks148]

Jezz was being polite Patrick! The list he and I inherited was put together by some well intentioned but clueless people! There were a few other howellers like Notts (Hollinwell) at 99

We had to make some major changes and felt could only do that over the course of a couple of rankings. Broadly speaking we think we have it now where it's not 'right' because it can't be that but at least we can argue our corner on pretty much anything.

Dornoch at 50odd still sends a shiver down my spine!

They sound like great guys, after all they had Nairn at 20 Odd

 

[matt611]

I take it you haven't played St Enodoc Matt? Quirky....yes, but it is a brilliant test of golf. I play it every year in their open off the very back tees and it is an absolute brute. It is probably my favourite course in England and I strongly recommend that if you get the chance to play it then do so :thup:

No never played it, if I'm ever down that way I would certainly give it a go as it seems to do well in all the rankings and is a very good price. As I said it is probably just viewing the course on a PC screen doesn't do it justice

 

[stevek1969]

Still can't believe that Scotscraig doesn't get a mention in the Top 200 in Britain. And that Portstewart Strand isn't in the top 100 .

 

[Hacker Khan]

How refreshing to read an entire thread that was both informative and interesting without a single bit of argy bargy.

Has the forum turned a corner?

Cheers Mike and Jezz :thup:

That's rich coming from a Daily Mail reader.....




Doh.

I would like to back up all others who have said what a great thread this was, really enjoyed it and great to have the interaction with the grande fromages.

 

[JCW]

Very interesting thread , I have read it all . My home club Parkstone here in Poole Dorset has just made the Top 100 list at no.91 , Lots of work has gone into updating the course and all of which have been very good and even more work going on this winter to holes 2, 6, 7, 10 and also the teeing areas of 8 & 13 . The greens at Parkstone are better then any I have played this year and I include those at Hillside, Formby , stoneham and many others . Every hole at the club has been improved and so have the views as many trees have been removed . Only thing we can not really do is get more yardage , 2 hundred yards maybe but not a lot more .:thup::clap::clap:

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Fabulous thread and some really interesting pints from Jezz and Mike in particular. It's clear it'll always be an emotive subject and there are still a few in the top 100 I disagree with and I'd replace with some from the next 100 list but it's all an opinion, albeit a rationalised and well argued one from GM

 

[SVB]

How many courses have you played to get this. Would the 'full' ranking list be a top 250 / 300 / 500 / 1000?? Is this available even as a flat list?

 

[Liverbirdie]

One of the threads of the year, and brilliant that a few of you guys engage with us on this one.:thup:

Mike, I represent a charity called "what to you do with your spare velour bags", can I send you a letter?

Like everyone on here I have my views on what is missing from the top 100 and what is too high in that list also. I'm glad that Royal St. Davids was mentioned, as I always felt that this was too high in the lists. It obviously scores highly for VFM but out of all the other courses I have played above it (44 upwards) such as Prestwick, Silloth,W Gailes, Moortown,W Saunton,Hunstanton, S&A,W Lancs and Bearwood. I would rate them all higher, with the only exception being Ladybank.


I feel that although it is a very good course (I've played it 3 times, and all in cheap opens), I feel that the castle on the hill probably raises the course's appeal, somewhat. If 13th century English gunners weren't clearly inebriated, and a better shot, I feel it wouldn't get in the top 200.

So, the main question is - do you rank them just on the marks across all contributors, or is there a later discussion whereby someone says "I know x course comes out at 53, but would anyone agree that it's not as good as Y at 57 and Z at 58. If people then agree with that sentiment is it then re-jigged on the comparison suggestion. If all that makes sense - or is it the marks only?

 

[SammmeBee]

Very interesting thread , I have read it all . My home club Parkstone here in Poole Dorset has just made the Top 100 list at no.91 , Lots of work has gone into updating the course and all of which have been very good and even more work going on this winter to holes 2, 6, 7, 10 and also the teeing areas of 8 & 13 . The greens at Parkstone are better then any I have played this year and I include those at Hillside, Formby , stoneham and many others . Every hole at the club has been improved and so have the views as many trees have been removed . Only thing we can not really do is get more yardage , 2 hundred yards maybe but not a lot more .:thup::clap::clap:

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