GM Top 100 rankings - live Q&A today 1-3pm

[richart]

Biggest ommission for me in the top 100 is Broadstone.

 

[MikeH]

Do you take into consideration the current course ranking on any other websites/magazines or is it purely down to the GM assessors own opinions and experiences?

Also, do you find that courses which are holding The Open tend to move up a few places, more on the fact that they are currently on the Open rota rather than on their actual merit?

good questions and the answers are sort of and yes, but for different reasons!

ref other rankings we like to look around and see what others are saying more to check we are not missing anything coming up on the blindside but we belive we clock up more visits and have a more robust assesing process than the others

ref Open courses always tend go up after hosting an Open as they will have been getting towards peak condition in the run up to the event and benefitting from investment on and off course making it as good as it possibly be can and then there's the added buzz/excitment of playing a course that has just hosted the world's greatest golf events

can they maintain their positin going forward that the thing!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

and if it was up to me and me alone, Enniscrone would be in there !

Hurrah!! I'm not the only one then

 

[MikeH]

more from Rob on Belfry & Grove

I would say that if there is a relative lack of love for these newer, more ‘corporate’ courses, then I am not surprised. In the UK & Ireland we are blessed with many of the finest courses in the world, and what we tend to love about them is that they are old, established, lovely, often quirky, but uniquely ours. The newer courses built to a more American design have their place, and these two are usually presented in tip-top condition. The water holes are exciting and very attractive. That we have such variety in the Top 100 is great, but I can see why they have their detractors. It is interesting, because whilst many golfers are traditionalists, you don’t get many modernists who refuse to play anywhere older than 50 years that doesn’t have USGA greens !

 

[matt611]

if it was up to me and me alone, Enniscrone would be in there !

Good man

 

[Val]

Val,

You may not be surprised to learn that all the courses you mention are close, and in some ways the hardest part of the whole ranking process is deciding which courses fill the spots from 85-100 and which would, in theory, at least - for we don't rank the Next 100 - be those nipping at their heels the other side of the divide.

There will be negligible differences between the course we rank 100th and the one that was theoretically closest to getting in but didn't make it, but as with all numerically limited lists, there has to be a cut-off point somewhere!

Starting with Wallasey, it always has been and always will be up for debate, but as others have mentioned in the other post, there are perhaps a few holes that let it down a little, among them the 10th - which seems to have Marmite-like qualities - and the holes towards the end of the front nine (I think) that play closest to the link road.

Dundonald has struggled at times in recent years on the condition front. I understand that it has improved greatly of late, although one of our assessors did still make reference to it in one or two places, and I also think it would be hard to have any course with a PortaKabin for a clubhouse in any list of the very finest courses in the land, however good that Portakabin may be. Our most recent assessor commented on that too - do you have an idea if a proper clubhouse is in the offing at some stage?

Several member of the GM team are regular visitors to Archerfield as a number of companies have hosted product launches there in recent years, and I've been many times in the past, most recently during the Muirfield Open. It is an excellent facility, with some of the best practice facilities and one of the best clubhouses in the country, but the feedback has always been that neither of the courses is quite Top 100, though very close.

I've not played Glasgow Gailes, but looking at our panellist feedback from this time, one felt it should be in and one not, and with so many courses getting unanimous nods, that always makes it a bit trickier.

Indeed, Glasgow Gailes and your final one, Little Aston, are two of the most highly regarded courses I've not yet played, so I will look to try and remedy that during the next assessing period to make my own judgment.

Mike has played Little Aston within the last year, and will be along in a moment to give you his thoughts on it...

Thanks Jezz, I'll be 100% honest and say I cannot disagree with what you say about Wallasey as they were my original thoughts when I first played, I cannot abide that 10th hole, it's horrid and stands out as an imposter on the course.

Lots of rumours up here about Dundonlad and the clubhouse but thats about it, rumours. It's still being touted as a contender for the Scottish Open but to be fair no European Tour even really needs a clubhouse when there is such an abundance of portable temporary buildings available now.

Im surprised to hear you hadn't played Glasgow Gailes, I thought it would have been right up your street when up in Ayrshire. I think it's one for a links lover who like the course relatively flat with minor changes in elevation with fairways lined by gorse and heather, it's not got the gradure of the dunes you'll see at the likes of Royal Aberdeen or Trump and in a way it's probably more in the mould of a Royal Lytham.

 

[richart]

Is it fair to assess a course that you visit in the winter over one you visit in the summer ? Links course may hardly differ, but a heathland with the heather in full bloom is going to look much more attractive than when it has died back in the winter. Parkland courses like Coombe Hill look stunning in May with bluebells out, trees coming into leaf, but in winter can look quite bare.

 

[matt611]

I'm interested to know where clubs like Ashridge and New Zealand place. Both are currently in the next 100 but I believe have previously been in the top 100. Are clubs like this going downhill or simple being left behind by the quality of other clubs?

 

[MikeH]

Mike has played Little Aston within the last year, and will be along in a moment to give you his thoughts on it...

Little Aston is very typical of the courses that just miss out... but which could get in
As Jezz said I played it last year durting the assesing period and really enjoyed my day there... thought the course was interesting, lots of history in the clubhouse, excellent pint of marstons and a steak and kidney pie. In fact I came back and said that I hoped it would get in...

However since then have played a nearly all the inland courses in the 80-100 zone (and a few that also missed out) and in my view it didnt quite justify inclusion

however they are working hard at the course so could well nudge in next time

 

[MikeH]

I'm interested to know where clubs like Ashridge and New Zealand place. Both are currently in the next 100 but I believe have previously been in the top 100. Are clubs like this going downhill or simple being left behind by the quality of other clubs?

neither have ever made it into our lists but both are in the very close bracket - 100-120 for both of them

 

[patricks148]

is it possible for a course to just drop out of the 100 from one list to the next two years later?

Im talking on marks rather than not being assessed like Skibo.

 

[richart]

I assume my course was marked down because we replaced the Alton Pride in the bar Mike ?

 

[MikeH]

Is it fair to assess a course that you visit in the winter over one you visit in the summer ? Links course may hardly differ, but a heathland with the heather in full bloom is going to look much more attractive than when it has died back in the winter. Parkland courses like Coombe Hill look stunning in May with bluebells out, trees coming into leaf, but in winter can look quite bare.

I think this is one of the reasons there are so many links in the list - they play well all year and indeed some would say come into thier own in November - April. Often they also have redudced green fees in the winter making them even more appealing

However I would add that a well manganed inland course should be playable all year round and those inland tracks who are performing really well in the rankings - Hankley, Sunningdale, Ganton, St Georges Hill all deliver year round

 

[AmandaJR]

This might sound daft but here goes anyhow! Do you find it harder to objectively judge a course's positives when playing like a proper numpty or conversely to not wax lyrical about it when playing like a golfing god??

I think I'd struggle!

 

[MikeH]

I assume my course was marked down because we replaced the Alton Pride in the bar Mike ?

ha ha!
enjoyed Blackmoor very much when i played it but a top 200 - not 100 course in my view

 

[MikeH]

This might sound daft but here goes anyhow! Do you find it harder to objectively judge a course's positives when playing like a proper numpty or conversely to not wax lyrical about it when playing like a golfing god??

I think I'd struggle!

think jezz has covered this off above in that when you're not playing well you can actually concentrate on assesing even more than when you are focusing on a good score

I have shot 98 and 92 (chopped it!) on my two visits to Royal Country Down but I rate it very highly!

 

[richart]

I think this is one of the reasons there are so many links in the list - they play well all year and indeed some would say come into thier own in November - April. Often they also have redudced green fees in the winter making them even more appealing

However I would add that a well manganed inland course should be playable all year round and those inland tracks who are performing really well in the rankings - Hankley, Sunningdale, Ganton, St Georges Hill all deliver year round

Totally agree, love links golf in the winter. Heathland courses also stand up well, and I know our course only closed one day last winter. Hopefully a lot of courses that suffered last year will be working on their drainage, as wet winters seem to be the norm now.

 

[MikeH]

Biggest ommission for me in the top 100 is Broadstone.

Rob Smith says..
Whilst Broadstone is undoubtedly a lovely course, I think that for it to make the jump from Next 100 to Top 100 would require the successful continuation of the recent work that that has seen, for example, the sixth transformed from a good par three into a great one. Having said that, there are few courses in the Next 100 that aren’t lovely, and there will almost certainly be fans of all of them making the same claim !

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Are there any courses which you are already on the look out for the next list?
Perhaps they didn't make top 200 this time around, but you know of work being carried out or changes in stewardship which may in a couple of years make the difference?
If so any names?

(I ask because Kedleston, my track is changing all the bunkering over the winters of 2013, 2014 & 2015, and we're hoping it will move up to a higher level with more recognition).

 

[MikeH]

is it possible for a course to just drop out of the 100 from one list to the next two years later?

Im talking on marks rather than not being assessed like Skibo.

yes four courses made way this year, Nefyn, Worlington and Newmarket, Killarney (Killeen) and Adare Mannor

the time before that we had a few drop put too - Mach Dunes for one