Changes to WHS in April 2024

[rosecott]

Of course, but the context here is the 90% allowance, which is only applicable to 4BBB and 3-from-4 Best-Ball par/bogey.
I'd be confident is saying you don't have many, if any, of those.

Oh we do. Our Seniors have a Team Bogey where the 4 individual Bogey results are added together for the team score on each hole - vicious format.

 

[rulie]

Competitions are run through software. That software advises Playing Handicaps.

And if the computer system is down (like the recent AT&T outage in the USA), then golf and golf competitions stop?
Something is wrong in this picture!
"Machine precision" run amok.

 

[wjemather]

And if the computer system is down (like the recent AT&T outage in the USA), then golf and golf competitions stop?
Something is wrong in this picture!
"Machine precision" run amok.

Playing Handicap calculations are to be done manually using rounded Course Handicaps in the absence of the required technology.

In practice, volunteer club committees are not going to run most run-of-the-mill comps without software to do the work for them.

 

[wjemather]

Oh we do. Our Seniors have a Team Bogey where the 4 individual Bogey results are added together for the team score on each hole - vicious format.

That isn't 3 from 4 though?
4 from 4 is 100% allowance.

 

[NearHull]

Playing Handicap calculations are to be done manually using rounded Course Handicaps in the absence of the required technology.

In practice, volunteer club committees are not going to run most run-of-the-mill comps without software to do the work for them.

If our ClubV1 goes down when about to run a competition, we will use the printed machine precision PH obtained from the EG database.

 

[D-S]

If our ClubV1 goes down when about to run a competition, we will use the printed machine precision PH obtained from the EG database.

Good point.
Are printed tables ‘machine precision’ or not? Or is it ‘non-machine precision’ only if derived from rounded boards?
Where does an excel spreadsheet figure in this - ‘machine precision’ or not if it’s not from a licensed vendor?
If someone is using the tables in the clubhouse and his opponents are using the rounded boards, whose right?

 

[wjemather]

Good point.
Are printed tables ‘machine precision’ or not? Or is it ‘non-machine precision’ only if derived from rounded boards?
Where does an excel spreadsheet figure in this - ‘machine precision’ or not if it’s not from a licensed vendor?
If someone is using the tables in the clubhouse and his opponents are using the rounded boards, whose right?

The competition committee/Terms of Competition.

At the seminar, James Luke was categorical that bespoke speadsheets are not classed as ‘machine precision’ and should not be used.

Opponents? Unless it's greensomes, in match play, rounded Course Handicaps are used anyway.

 

[rulie]

I don't understand how or why "machine precision" is being used when the machine just creates a number with a bunch of insignificant digits from the original golf score of two or three digits. It's quite ridiculous.
Why do people use a rounded version of pi rather than the full version? Because it provides the answer to sufficient precision.

 

[D-S]

The competition committee/Terms of Competition.

At the seminar, James Luke was categorical that bespoke speadsheets are not classed as ‘machine precision’ and should not be used.

Opponents? Unless it's greensomes, in match play, rounded Course Handicaps are used anyway.

So even the % sheets available on the portal are not classed as ‘machine precision’?

Any idea why Greensomes matchplay is needed to be unrounded and 4BB and Foursomes are allowed less precision? Is Greensomes that important?

 

[Alan Clifford]

Good point.
Are printed tables ‘machine precision’ or not? Or is it ‘non-machine precision’ only if derived from rounded boards?
Where does an excel spreadsheet figure in this - ‘machine precision’ or not if it’s not from a licensed vendor?
If someone is using the tables in the clubhouse and his opponents are using the rounded boards, whose right?

Looking at precision in Open Office, single floats are between 3.402823 x 10^38 and 1.401298 x 10^-45 whilst doubles have 1.79769313486232 x 10^308 and 4.94065645841247 x 10^-324.

I don't really understand what they mean by "machine precision".

Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_754 my brain begins to explode but our golfing masters should really have defined "machine precision" according to standards.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I don't understand how or why "machine precision" is being used when the machine just creates a number with a bunch of insignificant digits from the original golf score of two or three digits. It's quite ridiculous.
Why do people use a rounded version of pi rather than the full version? Because it provides the answer to sufficient precision.

26.49 * 0.85 = 22.5165. That would round to a playing handicap of 23.

If you round the course handicap first

26 * 0.85= 22.1, that would round to a playing handicap of 22.

Having both methods is insane.

 

[wjemather]

So even the % sheets available on the portal are not classed as ‘machine precision’?

Any idea why Greensomes matchplay is needed to be unrounded and 4BB and Foursomes are allowed less precision? Is Greensomes that important?

Who knows, but it has all the hallmarks of someone's last minute bright idea.
Maybe the thinking is that 50% and 90% are pretty easy to work out quickly on the tee, while 60% + 40% is less so.

 

[D-S]

Who knows, but it has all the hallmarks of someone's last minute bright idea.
Maybe the thinking is that 50% and 90% are pretty easy to work out quickly on the tee, while 60% + 40% is less so.

But wouldn’t you change it anyway for the sake of consistency? At least it wouldn’t give the impression that you were just making it up as you went along.

 

[rulie]

Looking at precision in Open Office, single floats are between 3.402823 x 10^38 and 1.401298 x 10^-45 whilst doubles have 1.79769313486232 x 10^308 and 4.94065645841247 x 10^-324.

I don't really understand what they mean by "machine precision".

Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_754 my brain begins to explode but our golfing masters should really have defined "machine precision" according to standards.

The machine doesn't make the original numbers any more precise. Imo, "machine precision", as being used here, is fictional.

 

[wjemather]

But wouldn’t you change it anyway for the sake of consistency? At least it wouldn’t give the impression that you were just making it up as you went along.

I'd like to think I'd have everything done one way or the other. Maybe they got feedback that too many people weren't ready to use technology for everything and panic set in?

 

[D-S]

I'd like to think I'd have everything done one way or the other. Maybe they got feedback that too many people weren't ready to use technology for everything and panic set in?

Sadly I think that was right and they had already started the seminar rollout so the change wasn’t covered adequately in the slides (we have an early copy of the presentation), in fact the foursomes change only happened a couple of weeks after the 4BB move to rounded and the modified calculation.
I just hope that they have all the ISVs onside by April 1st.
I don’t think this has been EGs finest hour.

 

[rulie]

I'd like to think I'd have everything done one way or the other. Maybe they got feedback that too many people weren't ready to use technology for everything and panic set in?

Imo, this is a misuse of technology and it does nothing to improve the system or the results.

 

[NearHull]

The competition committee/Terms of Competition.

At the seminar, James Luke was categorical that bespoke speadsheets are not classed as ‘machine precision’ and should not be used.

Opponents? Unless it's greensomes, in match play, rounded Course Handicaps are used anyway.

Perhaps James should reread their own guidance to Rules of Handicaps 6.2a

GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I

Whenever Playing Handicaps are calculated via machine (Computer, App, Spreadsheet etc) the calculation must use the full calculated Course Handicap. The Playing Handicap will be rounded at the end of the calculation (see examples in Appendix I of this document). Note that if the calculation is being done manually, players can use the rounded Course Handicap to calculated Playing Handicaps (e.g. a casual 4-Ball match play round).

I think the other important word here is ‘can’. It doesn’t say must. It’s a player’s choice.

 

[wjemather]

Perhaps James should reread their own guidance to Rules of Handicaps 6.2a

GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I

Whenever Playing Handicaps are calculated via machine (Computer, App, Spreadsheet etc) the calculation must use the full calculated Course Handicap. The Playing Handicap will be rounded at the end of the calculation (see examples in Appendix I of this document). Note that if the calculation is being done manually, players can use the rounded Course Handicap to calculated Playing Handicaps (e.g. a casual 4-Ball match play round).

I think the other important word here is ‘can’. It doesn’t say must. It’s a player’s choice.

Lawyering just makes things far more complicated than they need to be.

Players only calculate their own playing handicaps in casual play, match play and most informal comps - which don't have access to software. The question I answered related to formally organised competitions, when the competition committee is responsible for applying allowances, not the player.

Spreadsheets couldn't be excluded altogether because the CONGU mixed tee calculator is one.

 

[Viewer]

Lawyering just makes things far more complicated than they need to be.

Players only calculate their own playing handicaps in casual play, match play and most informal comps - which don't have access to software. The question I answered related to formally organised competitions, when the competition committee is responsible for applying allowances, not the player.

Spreadsheets couldn't be excluded altogether because the CONGU mixed tee calculator is one.

How do players calculate for an official club match play competition when rounds are arranged between themselves from the official draw?