Ryder Cup 2016 - Official Thread

[HomerJSimpson]

But it aint broken, US Team, Bubba 7th in World Rankings, not needed.
I would agree picks should be last minute.

Not saying it's broken but surely worth looking at.

 

[Hosel Fade]

What wound me up was Sky insisting Rose was playing well when it clearly was not the case and he holed nothing. The games he won, one was 90% Henrik and the other him and Wood were only -2. Only the one birdie in the loss saturday afternoon as well, on a course with four par 5s (albeit long) and a drivable par 4 that simply is not good enough

Big error not playing RCB both sessions on Saturday as well imo.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

What wound me up was Sky insisting Rose was playing well when it clearly was not the case and he holed nothing. The games he won, one was 90% Henrik and the other him and Wood were only -2. Only the one birdie in the loss saturday afternoon as well, on a course with four par 5s (albeit long) and a drivable par 4 that simply is not good enough

Big error not playing RCB both sessions on Saturday as well imo.

Perhaps a bit unfair. Rose seemed to struggle on the greens but he took Fowler to the end. Ultimately though surely match play is taking one less than your opponent and so being only -2 isn't the right benchmark. How many points did he contribute, and compare that to others

 

[Fish]

Its was simply a putting competition, even the players that are getting some stick on here still shot level par or better and when they got their birdies,they were simply halved, usually by putts that you wouldn't expect to drop! the difference was that the USA sank more single putts and drained the ones when it really mattered.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Its was simply a putting competition, even the players that are getting some stick on here still shot level par or better and when they got their birdies,they were simply halved, usually by putts that you wouldn't expect to drop! the difference was that the USA sank more single putts and drained the ones when it really mattered.

A lot of truth in that. Plus let's give the Americans some credit, they played some great golf!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

A lot of truth in that. Plus let's give the Americans some credit, they played some great golf!

No good you and Fish being sensible, we need knee jerk reactions and "I told you so" comments sprinkled with a bit of "blame somebody" thrown in.

 

[Hosel Fade]

Its was simply a putting competition, even the players that are getting some stick on here still shot level par or better and when they got their birdies,they were simply halved, usually by putts that you wouldn't expect to drop! the difference was that the USA sank more single putts and drained the ones when it really mattered.

The issue being if there was a 72 hole standard tournament round there the cut would be something like +2 or +3 so level will not achieve anything vs the very best players in the world

 

[Kellfire]

The issue being if there was a 72 hole standard tournament round there the cut would be something like +2 or +3 so level will not achieve anything vs the very best players in the world

So every single player should shoot under par every round?

Yep, that's how golf works...

 

[garyinderry]

Apparently Justin Rose was complaining about Davis Love putting the pins in flat spots on the greens and also not hard enough pin positions.

With virtually no rough to speak of on the course he had to be making more birdies.

He simply didn't play well enough.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Apparently Justin Rose was complaining about Davis Love putting the pins in flat spots on the greens and also not hard enough pin positions.

With virtually no rough to speak of on the course he had to be making more birdies.

He simply didn't play well enough.

In terms of the result I think that's all academic as it's the same for both teams.

But when it comes to the spectacle and the credibility and excitement of the competition I think the course set up was terrible.

The lack of trouble for wayward tee shots was a joke and easy pin positions meant a real lack of drama from players forced to attack difficult "sucker" pins.

I think the tournament would benefit greatly by stipulating course setup guidelines and taking that option away from the captains.

 

[Hosel Fade]

So every single player should shoot under par every round?

Yep, that's how golf works...

No but you need to averaging about 4 birdies a round to be competitive, of course some won't do but you can't expect to get anything out of level par scoring with enormous perfect and softish greens, relatively low rough and irrelevant bunkering. Only challenges were the length stopping some of the soft par 5 birdies they would usually expect and the pressure of the event.

 

[Slab]

When is a RC point worth less than one point?

I was just wondering what the mathematics and stats are behind gaining/losing any one point out of the 28

For example if you have a couple of lads off the boil form-wise and another couple just back from injury so a bit rusty. Statistically what is the best way to play them to minimise ‘damage’ (points lost) rather than chasing points won

I’m working on the assumption that every player must play at least twice, so every rookie, recently injured or out of form player is responsible for at least 2 points each (even in a pairs match

Is there merit in pairing all these type of guys together over the first two days to double up on possible lost points without losing more than one point at a time, and did DC dabble in this approach with the Kaymer/Willett and Westwood/Willett pairings and therefore get minimum damage from a lost point? (hoping they will still win obviously as with the latter pair) And if he’d extended the group to include Fitzpatrick & Sullivan might another couple of lost points have been ‘saved’ by losing at the same time

I really have no idea whether to take the above seriously or not... & I wrote it!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Slab - I think there is logic in that. Playing an off form player with an in form player could drag the good player down. That is the gamble. Obviously you hope the good player takes a point or a half but it is a gamble. Playing two out of form players together reduces the risk to one loss only rather than 2 losses, as happened Saturday afternoon. I suspect gamblers / statisticians looking logically would minimise the risk rather than spreading it.

 

[Val]

Its was simply a putting competition, even the players that are getting some stick on here still shot level par or better and when they got their birdies,they were simply halved, usually by putts that you wouldn't expect to drop! the difference was that the USA sank more single putts and drained the ones when it really mattered.

In reality, all pro tournaments tend to be putting competitions. Ryder Cup is no different.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The next European captain will surely have rough on the course as the Americans are obviously terrified of the stuff. If the Americans get penalised for wild driving then it doesn't become a pure putting comp, it is more all round and they wont get a chance to putt before they have had to concede the hole.

Val, I do get your point but if the course is tight then it is more than just putting.

 

[Fish]

In reality, all pro tournaments tend to be putting competitions. Ryder Cup is no different.

I think the point I was trying to make Martin, was, the players were all on the greens together mainly in regulation, I didn't witness much scrambling from wayward drives in conditions that penalised them a shot, even the bunkers were that easy they could aim for them, as such, it favoured and leaned towards more of a putting competition which I think can be seen by some of the scorecards with very few bogeys being carded, even by those players that are getting some stick, so, the points were being made by single putts only and hardly ever by actual dropped shots.

The course was obviously set up that way and it must have been recognised by Love that that would suit his selected team, until courses are not set up by captains it's not a fully balanced competition as each team will have their own strengths and weaknesses, if the European teams strength is tee to green but the USA is short game including putting, then the money is on the USA for a course set up that way.

Just my warped view of it in hindsight...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The Captain set's the course up, but it's handed over to the relevant PGA the Friday before the Comp and they choose the pins and Tee positions.
Love had the exact same set up at Medinah and we beat them there.

I think Rose was having a dig at the US PGA not D Love III.

 

[Val]

I think the point I was trying to make Martin, was, the players were all on the greens together mainly in regulation, I didn't witness much scrambling from wayward drives in conditions that penalised them a shot, even the bunkers were that easy they could aim for them, as such, it favoured and leaned towards more of a putting competition which I think can be seen by some of the scorecards with very few bogeys being carded, even by those players that are getting some stick, so, the points were being made by single putts only and hardly ever by actual dropped shots.

The course was obviously set up that way and it must have been recognised by Love that that would suit his selected team, until courses are not set up by captains it's not a fully balanced competition as each team will have their own strengths and weaknesses, if the European teams strength is tee to green but the USA is short game including putting, then the money is on the USA for a course set up that way.

Just my warped view of it in hindsight...

Don't disagree but it shouldnt be a surprise that set ups in the US are like this. Most comps on the PGA tour are won by 15 under par or more.

 

[Hacker Khan]

When is a RC point worth less than one point?

I was just wondering what the mathematics and stats are behind gaining/losing any one point out of the 28

For example if you have a couple of lads off the boil form-wise and another couple just back from injury so a bit rusty. Statistically what is the best way to play them to minimise ‘damage’ (points lost) rather than chasing points won

I’m working on the assumption that every player must play at least twice, so every rookie, recently injured or out of form player is responsible for at least 2 points each (even in a pairs match

Is there merit in pairing all these type of guys together over the first two days to double up on possible lost points without losing more than one point at a time, and did DC dabble in this approach with the Kaymer/Willett and Westwood/Willett pairings and therefore get minimum damage from a lost point? (hoping they will still win obviously as with the latter pair) And if he’d extended the group to include Fitzpatrick & Sullivan might another couple of lost points have been ‘saved’ by losing at the same time

I really have no idea whether to take the above seriously or not... & I wrote it!

There was a stat that DC quoted along the lines that if you pair 2 rookies together there is only something like a 17% chance they will win. or something like that, the percentages may not be exact. But I suspect that worried him, hence the in hindsight misguided reliance on 'experience'