F1 2019

[Dibby]

I use to enjoy the F1 and loved being regaled by Hunt and Nelson Piquets mechanic whenever I played golf with them about life on the circus, who hated who and the tales of what when on after dark. it use to be a spectacle and the race was a thrilling climax to that. Today it has a more sterile, corporate air to proceedings and the racing and the atmosphere are in the same sterile manner. There is too little driver skill with everything at the touch of a button, too much involvement of teams through radios and in their pit tactics and the racing aside from the opening laps often descends into a procession bar some midfield battles. I would love to watch more often and be entertained but as it is there isn't enough there to entice me. I'll follow the championship as the season unfolds and enjoy some of the stuff written from the pit lane but can't sit there and watch it in the current format

I find this is a comment made by every generation about past generations being better than current, not just in sport, but all areas of life. I would say current F1 drivers probably have more skill than previous generations, just those skills are different.

They may not be pushing a clutch pedal, and getting blisters from a stick shift gearbox, but I'm not sure it requires less skill to simultaneously be driving a car at 200mph, updating settings, managing temperatures and wear of components, activating DRS, having a casual chat with your engineer on the radio, whilst not missing your breaking point, and trying to keep someone behind you or get past someone in front.

 

[robinthehood]

Marquez would almost certainly win the title if he had been on a Ducati or even Yamaha.

Obviously resources are important but it is still far more about the rider than F1 is about the driver.

Just look at the comparison on closeness of results.

Personally I enjoy the spectacle and tech of F1 but as far as excitement goes it isn't remotely close to Motogp.

Why not start a a motogp thread then and leave us to talk f1 in here.
Interestingly since 2000 there have been 7 f1 champs from 6 teams.
Vs
6 drivers from 4 teams in moto gp.
Not really the great free for all its made out to be .

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I find this is a comment made by every generation about past generations being better than current, not just in sport, but all areas of life. I would say current F1 drivers probably have more skill than previous generations, just those skills are different.

They may not be pushing a clutch pedal, and getting blisters from a stick shift gearbox, but I'm not sure it requires less skill to simultaneously be driving a car at 200mph, updating settings, managing temperatures and wear of components, activating DRS, having a casual chat with your engineer on the radio, whilst not missing your breaking point, and trying to keep someone behind you or get past someone in front.

Of all the F1 drivers of recent memory I think the most complete driver had to be Schumacher especially with his ability to deal with all weather conditions and find a way to get the job done. Of course all sport (and indeed life) is subjective and of course all sport moves on. You simply have to look at the level of golf now, how Woods moved the game forward, and how it was even as far back as Seve et al in the 80's to see it's completely different. I may have done the driving skill a disservice but do feel for the large part, the action on the track isn't as cut and thrust as it was. I'd also go as far as to say a lot of sports are cyclical and so will go through a fallow period in terms of competition and perhaps TV audience engagement, and then suddenly there will be two young protagonists coming through that move it forward again and renew interest.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Why not start a a motogp thread then and leave us to talk f1 in here.
Interestingly since 2000 there have been 7 f1 champs from 6 teams.
Vs
6 drivers from 4 teams in moto gp.
Not really the great free for all its made out to be .

What has that got to do with anything?

It would make more sense to compare the number of engine manufacturers that have won the two championships

I am not knocking F1, unlike yourself with your remarks about Motogp, as I watch F1 as well as bikes and have never claimed that, overall, one is better than the other.

However, the disparity in the closeness of racing and overtaking is indisputable.

F1 is a victim of the success of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved who have made the cars so difficult for following drivers to remain close and then overtake without the artificial aid of DRS.

 

[robinthehood]

What has that got to do with anything?

It would make more sense to compare the number of engine manufacturers that have won the two championships

I am not knocking F1, unlike yourself with your remarks about Motogp, as I watch F1 as well as bikes and have never claimed that, overall, one is better than the other.

However, the disparity in the closeness of racing and overtaking is indisputable.

F1 is a victim of the success of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved who have made the cars so difficult for following drivers to remain close and then overtake without the artificial aid of DRS.

No the point is I don't care for bike racing in any form and this thread is immediately hijacked by people telling us how crap f1 is and how great bike racing is.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

No the point is I don't care for bike racing in any form and this thread is immediately hijacked by people telling us how crap f1 is and how great bike racing is.

Sorry but I hadn't realised that you had restricted the thread to adolescents like yourself.

 

[Slab]

Of all the F1 drivers of recent memory I think the most complete driver had to be Schumacher especially with his ability to deal with all weather conditions and find a way to get the job done. Of course all sport (and indeed life) is subjective and of course all sport moves on. You simply have to look at the level of golf now, how Woods moved the game forward, and how it was even as far back as Seve et al in the 80's to see it's completely different. I may have done the driving skill a disservice but do feel for the large part, the action on the track isn't as cut and thrust as it was. I'd also go as far as to say a lot of sports are cyclical and so will go through a fallow period in terms of competition and perhaps TV audience engagement, and then suddenly there will be two young protagonists coming through that move it forward again and renew interest.

Agreed, I find the Tour de France very cyclical






I'll get my spandex coat

 

[SaintHacker]

I am not knocking F1, unlike yourself with your remarks about Motogp, as I watch F1 as well as bikes and have never claimed that, overall, one is better than the other.
.

Apart from on the Moto GP thread

As a sporting event Moto GP is far superior to F1, which I also watch, due to the bikes being more evenly matched and it being far easier to create and take an overtaking opportunity .

.

...

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Apart from on the Moto GP thread


...

Are you seriously suggesting that the racing itself is not closer with more overtaking manoeuvres in Motogp?

When did you last see an F1 race with the top 7 finishers covered by 2.5 secs?

As I have said I am not knocking F1, after all I watch the races and much of the other coverage. The two events are different.

F1 is the peak of technical development and therein lies much of its appeal whilst Motogp represents more of a spectacle from the actual racing between individuals.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

When did you last see an F1 race with the top 7 finishers covered by 2.5 secs?

Do you not think that the physical size difference account for that?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Do you not think that the physical size difference account for that?

Exactly and that coupled with the phenomenal aerodynamic efficiency of the cars means that there are very few circuits where we will get to see very much wheel to wheel racing.

Which incidentally was rather the point being made initially before some started getting all defensive.

 

[Cherry13]

F1 is the peak of technical development and therein lies much of its appeal whilst Motogp represents more of a spectacle from the actual racing between individuals.

In my opinion this is where f1 has actually got a bit lost. It should be the forefront, it should be the best engineers creating the best technology, then raced by the best drivers in the world. But in pursuit of trying to create a racing spectacle they’ve lost sight of that a bit and tried to reign in the tech.
I actually want to see the innovation more than wheel to wheel racing. I want 6 wheeled cars, electronic suspension, double wings, triple diffusers etc. Leave the wheel to wheel racing for le man or Indy car.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

In my opinion this is where f1 has actually got a bit lost. It should be the forefront, it should be the best engineers creating the best technology, then raced by the best drivers in the world. But in pursuit of trying to create a racing spectacle they’ve lost sight of that a bit and tried to reign in the tech.
I actually want to see the innovation more than wheel to wheel racing. I want 6 wheeled cars, electronic suspension, double wings, triple diffusers etc. Leave the wheel to wheel racing for le man or Indy car.

I agree. F1 seems to be getting itself caught between the two with some "artificial" rules being introduced in an attempt to create closer racing.

Such is the excellence of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved the rule makers soon find that those attempts have been defeated.

Carte blanche within a relatively loose Formula could lead to greater excitement as different concepts could be pursued by different teams.

 

[robinthehood]

It would be interesting, seeing as they already push the boundaries with little holes in the rims, overly flexible wings, exhaust redirection, oil burning etc...the designers are always coming up with clever tricks to eek out a little more power or aero.

 

[Cherry13]

It would be interesting, seeing as they already push the boundaries with little holes in the rims, overly flexible wings, exhaust redirection, oil burning etc...the designers are always coming up with clever tricks to eek out a little more power or aero.

I would love it. I think it would be incredible to see the limits of what they could create. Imagine Ferrari and Mercedes going head to head in an R and D war with no limitations.

On a similar theme I think they should have a drug enabled olympics... imagine bolt on steroids... haha.

 

[duncan mackie]

I agree. F1 seems to be getting itself caught between the two with some "artificial" rules being introduced in an attempt to create closer racing.

Such is the excellence of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved the rule makers soon find that those attempts have been defeated.

Carte blanche within a relatively loose Formula could lead to greater excitement as different concepts could be pursued by different teams.

As you recognise, F1 has become an aero series.
There were more gains to be had there than in increasing the engine output once any restrictions were introduced.
Then the engine restrictions increased, fuel restrictions came in, refuelling went out (strategy option killed) and don't even start on tyres!
Then you have the engine unit restrictions and penalties - again ultimate capability gets masked....
Melbourne is a bad example to consider any progress (but a good one for teams to view underlying competitiveness) but I wouldn't expect to see any significant difference in the stated objective through 2019 - the DRS changes will have way more impact (but whether they really mean anything in practice can't be predicted).
If you look at it eyes wide open, aero is the only opportunity for performance differential...and they are committed to fundamental rule changes in that area over coming years.
Not healthy.

 

[Pin-seeker]

I don't understand this forum at times. Every year a thread is started about F1 by someone who likes it, for others who like it to discuss it as the season goes on. Yet every third post is someone telling us how they don't like it, its boring, no overtaking yada yada.
If you don't like it, don't open the thread and leave it to those of us who do!

Also happens on the Boxing/UFC thread.

 

[cookelad]

For me F1 lost a lot of the tactical aspect when they did away with refuelling, I've barely watched a race since, the tyre degredation element seems forced/false and not in keeping with what, as others have said, should be an innovative sport.

The best races are "always" those where there's an element of unpredictability to upset the procession, problem being that nowadays the teams have so much info that the can predict to within a few minutes the rainfall, for example, so they adjust their race strategies accordingly.

 

[robinthehood]

Also happens on the Boxing/UFC thread.

Just had a look, unbelievable. I amazed at how some on here get away with the constant ridiculous trolling .

 

[robinthehood]

Bahrain up next and it will be another warm one.
Looks like Lewis picked up floor damage on lap 4 that impeded his pace and he was happy enough in the end to bring it home in 2nd.
The Ferraris can't be as poor again can they? Let's hope they red bull get both cars in to q3 this time 😂