Alterations to WHS?

[rulefan]

Not reading four pages of rammel, but if anyone thinks that WHS is simpler and easier to understand from the old system then my name is Donkey Dong.
A ( old) system was could have been improved has been royally screwed up. It has been changed ( to WHS). We have been informed it is the best thing to have. It has now been fine tuned, now it we are told it is the best thing.
It’s ok talking about this on a golf forum. But we represent about 0.000000000001% of golfers and those I play with do not have a clue what is going off. After this fine tuning they will still not have a clue.
Am sure those at England golf will be patting themselves on the back tonight saying what a wonderful job they are doing.
Come what may the message of changing to WHS and Why the changes is not getting to Joe Average golfers.

Let me give an example.
At our place we now have mixed comps. The course has been measured over Black, white, yellow and red. But for a mixed comp everyone gets extra shots ( up to 3 ). Why? You know what the measured holes are so why give extra shots? Am told there is only England that does this, but not all courses. So how is that WHS standard scoring?
Also I am then informed that the three extra shots you get.3 points are taken off at the end? So why give them in the first place?
Here’s the best bit. If you play off 10 you get three extra shots so hcap is 13. Your three shots come off your total score not what you got on hole 11,12,13.
Now all this is what I picked up off lads who play more comps that’s me. So a lot of what I wrote could be and probably is rammel. But it endorses the fact that 99.999999999999% do not have clue what the bloody hell is going off with WHS.

Have you actually read and 'tried' to understand the manual. It really is straightforward. Don't get side-tracked by those that haven't even opened the book.
Where did you get the bit in red? Not from the book I'd bet. Do you understand the difference between Course Handicap and Playing Handicap and why they both exist?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

It’s been implanted long enough now that there is no excuse for not understanding WHS. People that don’t are either too daft, or don’t want to out of sheer stubbornness.

It’s not difficult.

 

[Tashyboy]

It’s been implanted long enough now that there is no excuse for not understanding WHS. People that don’t are either too daft, or don’t want to out of sheer stubbornness.

It’s not difficult.

On here it has but the 20 odd lads I play with in a fuddle think it is as clear as mud.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

On here it has but the 20 odd lads I play with in a fuddle think it is as clear as mud.

Sounds like a them problem.

the system has been in place for 3 years in the UK pretty much, and with the information out a way before that.

if they choose not to try and understand the system, that’s on them. I imagine they must have ‘learnt’ the old system at some point

 

[Tashyboy]

It’s been implanted long enough now that there is no excuse for not understanding WHS. People that don’t are either too daft, or don’t want to out of sheer stubbornness.

It’s not difficult.

Copied from England golf.
Quote,
To calculate your Playing Handicap for a competitive round you need just one calculation:

Course Handicap x Handicap Allowance = Playing Handicap

Thats not hard to understand. To suggest you are to be daft, or not want to know out of stubbornness Addresses nothing. But why add extra shots in mixed comps. You can highlight one bit of that but to not answer the question as to why extra shots are added or even what is the rational is behind it. Furthermore rather than just say people are daft or stubborn try educating golfers as to why that is the WHS rational.

 

[Tashyboy]

Sounds like a them problem.

the system has been in place for 3 years in the UK pretty much, and with the information out a way before that.

if they choose not to try and understand the system, that’s on them. I imagine they must have ‘learnt’ the old system at some point

So the system has been in place for three years, yet the system of addled shots in mixed comps was implemented at our place this Q season. So was our course wrong for the first two?

 

[Deleted member 15717]

So the system has been in place for three years, yet the system of addled shots in mixed comps was implemented at our place this Q season. So was our course wrong for the first two?

I would say so, yes.

 

[D-S]

So the system has been in place for three years, yet the system of addled shots in mixed comps was implemented at our place this Q season. So was our course wrong for the first two?

Without knowing the details, it looks as if this isn’t a WHS issue but a Club Comp Committee issue.

 

[wjemather]

Thats not hard to understand. To suggest you are to be daft, or not want to know out of stubbornness Addresses nothing. But why add extra shots in mixed comps. You can highlight one bit of that but to not answer the question as to why extra shots are added or even what is the rational is behind it. Furthermore rather than just say people are daft or stubborn try educating golfers as to why that is the WHS rational.

The ratings for each set of tees, and for each gender, will be different. Mixed tee adjustments simply account for this difference in difficulty.

So the system has been in place for three years, yet the system of addled shots in mixed comps was implemented at our place this Q season. So was our course wrong for the first two?

Either your club only started mixed tee comps this year, added extra tee options to comps this year that caused an adjustment for all other tees, or have been getting it wrong for two years - the latter is very unlikely because all accredited software will automatically calculate handicaps correctly.

 

[IanM]

I don't care about the vagaries of WHS, but I do like the word "rammel" being envoked!

 

[Voyager EMH]

 

[cliveb]

Understanding WHS is much easier than having a working knowledge of the rules of golf.
Are the people who refuse to get to grips with it the same ones who routinely play in competitions while breaking rules willy-nilly?

 

[IanM]

Understanding WHS is much easier than having a working knowledge of the rules of golf.
Are the people who refuse to get to grips with it the same ones who routinely play in competitions while breaking rules willy-nilly?

You only need to know 3 numbers
The Hows and Whys are not essential

 

[rosecott]

Not reading four pages of rammel, but if anyone thinks that WHS is simpler and easier to understand from the old system then my name is Donkey Dong.
A ( old) system was could have been improved has been royally screwed up. It has been changed ( to WHS). We have been informed it is the best thing to have. It has now been fine tuned, now it we are told it is the best thing.
It’s ok talking about this on a golf forum. But we represent about 0.000000000001% of golfers and those I play with do not have a clue what is going off. After this fine tuning they will still not have a clue.
Am sure those at England golf will be patting themselves on the back tonight saying what a wonderful job they are doing.
Come what may the message of changing to WHS and Why the changes is not getting to Joe Average golfers.

Let me give an example.
At our place we now have mixed comps. The course has been measured over Black, white, yellow and red. But for a mixed comp everyone gets extra shots ( up to 3 ). Why? You know what the measured holes are so why give extra shots? Am told there is only England that does this, but not all courses. So how is that WHS standard scoring?
Also I am then informed that the three extra shots you get.3 points are taken off at the end? So why give them in the first place?
Here’s the best bit. If you play off 10 you get three extra shots so hcap is 13. Your three shots come off your total score not what you got on hole 11,12,13.
Now all this is what I picked up off lads who play more comps that’s me. So a lot of what I wrote could be and probably is rammel. But it endorses the fact that 99.999999999999% do not have clue what the bloody hell is going off with WHS.

Andy,

I am sorely tempted to copy your entire post and Whatsapp it to your club's General Manager and ask for comment.

 

[jim8flog]

If you get 36 points you know you played pretty much to handicap and that's good enough for most people.

just not good enough to win a comp

 

[jim8flog]

I wouldnt know either CH or PH, ever. But always know my HI to the decimal.
The other two appear on my card if I am playing a competition. If casual golf, we all just use the HI as the shots to get, whether alone or for 2 quid in a 3 or 4 ball.

I play a couple of regular roll ups/ swindles. In one everybody plays to 100% of CH and in that one scores are often seen over 40 points
In the other we play off we play off 95% CH and nobody has scored 40 points or more this year.
There was a bit of howl when we went 95% in the latter (I run it) but I just pointed to everybody - it is what happens in a comp so why do something different.

As per your comments there are some that do not know their CH/PH and have to work it out every time and quite a few that can tell you off the top of their heads. One the worst for not knowing was DQd in a comp last year for wrong CH/PH on the card (at least that is one good change in the rules).

 

[jim8flog]

. But why add extra shots in mixed comps. You can highlight one bit of that but to not answer the question as to why extra shots are added or even what is the rational is behind it.

To understand why extra shots are added you have to think in Stableford points terms and what 'playing to handicap' means.

Where I play
A man playing to handicap off the whites is 36 points
A man playing to handicap off the yellows is 38 points
A lady playing to handicap off the reds is 34 points

So if lady and a man play in the same comp they need adjustment shots so that playing to handicap results in the same number of points.

Note; on some courses it may be the men that get the adjustment shots



I

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Because you played better than your HI. Your average score is shots worse than that. Even of your best 8, 36 points is better than that average. So score 36 points, your handicap will be cut, since you played better than it. So you didnt play TO handicap.

Absolutely should not be. Your best 8 scores are divided by 8. My current best 8, four are below my Hi, and 4 are above my HI. Only way that would change is if you had a significant outlier.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Is the rest of the world following Scotland o rounding, or is Scotland doing its own thing and not fully complying with WHS ?

Amazingly, it's Scottish Golf that's doing it right here. Blind squirrel moment from them

 

[doublebogey7]

So the system has been in place for three years, yet the system of addled shots in mixed comps was implemented at our place this Q season. So was our course wrong for the first two?

I am somewhat confused by this, you say earlier that the previous system was easy to understand but WHS is not. Yet the old system had mixed tee adjustments, did you understand those or were your club not implimenting those either. In both cases if they were not implimenting them they must have been overriding the software. I fear something very strange is going on.