Card retention

rulefan

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Pre WHS EG required that cards should be kept for two years. Does anyone have confirmation or knowledge of what the current policy is?
Given that the WHS manual makes no mention of it, all details are in the WHS cloud and cards are not always used, I assume that there is no requirement to keep them at all.
 

jim8flog

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I would expect that there is no requirement now as all the records are on a computer (and on the WHS platform) and a lot of clubs do not even ask for cards to returned.
 

rulefan

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I would expect that there is no requirement now as all the records are on a computer (and on the WHS platform) and a lot of clubs do not even ask for cards to returned.
I would agree but have now been asked by our assistant manager to confirm with EG
 

rosecott

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Pre WHS EG required that cards should be kept for two years. Does anyone have confirmation or knowledge of what the current policy is?
Given that the WHS manual makes no mention of it, all details are in the WHS cloud and cards are not always used, I assume that there is no requirement to keep them at all.

Our players enter their own scores and they retain the scorecard for 2 weeks in case the committee needs to see it.
 

IanMcC

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Purely speculation, but I would have thought that there would be an official level for auditing purposes. I was audited a few years back, and they asked why a junior played in a seniors championship. It was a Sunday comp with dual prizes, dependent on age, so it was fine, but I could have produced the cards if required. I keep ours for 12 months, but have not had guidance from Wales Golf.
 

wjemather

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Pre WHS EG required that cards should be kept for two years. Does anyone have confirmation or knowledge of what the current policy is?
Given that the WHS manual makes no mention of it, all details are in the WHS cloud and cards are not always used, I assume that there is no requirement to keep them at all.
There is no requirement to retain cards.
However, our regional handicap advisor stated that England Golf recommend retaining cards for 12 months as potentially useful to have evidence for reviews, appeals or investigations.
We keep them for one month.
 

Jigger

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There is no requirement to retain cards.
However, our regional handicap advisor stated that England Golf recommend retaining cards for 12 months as potentially useful to have evidence for reviews, appeals or investigations.
We keep them for one month.
I can’t see the point in this. A fudged electronic record is just the same as a fudged scorecard.
 

wjemather

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I can’t see the point in this. A fudged electronic record is just the same as a fudged scorecard.
Physical scorecards can provide and verify much more information than just a record of the scores that have been entered on the system.
 

jim8flog

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The question comes - why do we keep the cards.

This is 'hang up' from the days before computer systems were used which showed the scores for each round rather then just the gross/nett.

Personally I cannot see any more useful information being gained from a card verses looking at the computer record other than for a couple of months in case of query for a given comp.

It is probably why you cannot find a hard and fast rule these days just some old boys who want to hang on to the past when it was in writing (from memory in the Guidance for a Handicap committee or some similarly named manual).

I remember looking in our storage room at the back of the office and there were boxes and boxes full of them because nobody had even thought to throw any out. I have a memory of the time asking the local county guy and he said only keep them for a year between each annual handicap review.
 

Default Golfer

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Given that general play scores can be submitted and attested electronically using the MyEG app, then common sense says that physical competition scorecards should not need to be retained at all, once they have been entered via the ISV software and the competition has been finalised.

Unless, of course, there's a difference between general play and competition scores, but let's not go there ...
 

Jigger

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Physical scorecards can provide and verify much more information than just a record of the scores that have been entered on the system.
Sorry but I disagree. Everything that is on a scorecard can be put on a system. If it can’t, it’s a bad system.
 

wjemather

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Sorry but I disagree. Everything that is on a scorecard can be put on a system. If it can’t, it’s a bad system.
I have to assume you've never done the job of a handicap or competition committee member.

Electronic scorecards have their limitations compared to a physical card, and the vast majority still do not use them (and it will be a very long time until many do). Basic score input systems are prevalent, and with them, that is all you get on the system... scores; there are no signatures (so no verification of the marker's identity), no possible cross-checking of player & marker's scores, no assistance in identifying/confirming a score that has been entered on the system incorrectly, etc., etc.
 

Neilds

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I have to assume you've never done the job of a handicap or competition committee member.

Electronic scorecards have their limitations compared to a physical card, and the vast majority still do not use them (and it will be a very long time until many do). Basic score input systems are prevalent, and with them, that is all you get on the system... scores; there are no signatures (so no verification of the marker's identity), no possible cross-checking of player & marker's scores, no assistance in identifying/confirming a score that has been entered on the system incorrectly, etc., etc.
Being really pedantic, how can you verify the marker’s identity unlesss you get all members to provide specimen signatures every year? Most of my mates have very strange squiggles😀
 

wjemather

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Being really pedantic, how can you verify the marker’s identity unlesss you get all members to provide specimen signatures every year? Most of my mates have very strange squiggles😀
Once you've been doing the job a while, you come to recognise the vast majority of them - even though most bare no resemblance to their names - especially when you know the groups people usually play in (we don't have many drawn comps).
 

sjw

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It's the 21st century. Any notion of having to hold on to pieces of card that people have scrawled on is ridiculous IMVHO.
 

wjemather

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It's the 21st century. Any notion of having to hold on to pieces of card that people have scrawled on is ridiculous IMVHO.
Even if network/WiFi coverage on the course was adequate - which it isn't - there are enough contributors to slow play without having to wait for people fiddling with electronic devices (even with perfect service and a technically competent operator, electronic scorecards are orders of magnitude slower and more cumbersome than a physical card). Also, most people probably do not wish to subject their devices to the elements and many won't even take them on the course.
 

rulefan

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EG have ruled "Scorecards must be kept up until the following annual review before they are discarded".
Presumably they mean after the review has been completed
 

sjw

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most people probably do not wish to subject their devices to the elements and many won't even take them on the course

Nonsense.

Even if network/WiFi coverage on the course was adequate - which it isn't

Who said anything about needing wi-fi on the course?

It is honestly baffling how slowly some things move. We are in an age where pocket computers are the norm and yet golf still relies heavily on paper scorecards. It's just one of those things that speaks volumes about the demographic that makes up the majority of golfers and the game's organisers.
 
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