WHS General Play and Competition Play

[patricks148]

Personally ive yet to put a GP card in as i prefer to play in comps for scores and a bounce game for me is fun and i'd usually play match play against friends in those games.

one thing i have noticed that playing with a few guys who who were all similar handicaps to me (3) that they have managed to get much lower by putting GP scores

 

[woofers]

probably the wrong place to post this but don’t want to start a new thread

We have a new system for comps where men and ladies compete together, men have the option of whites or yellows and ladies have the option of reds or orange tees.

This means, for some reason, men playing off the whites get an extra 2 shots.

Example for me;
index is 4.2
I get 5 shots based on the chart
So I get 7 shots with the extra 2 adjustment shots.

Scoring is therefore insanely high (42 pts wins on average)

Big bug bear for me… I can’t see why anyone would choose to play the yellow tees?
The whites were moved up to the yellow plates on the majority of holes. You basically choose whites, play off yellows and get an extra 2 shots.

Anyone else’s club doing this? I don’t think it can really work. I don’t trust the ratings enough and I don’t see how you can have men and ladies competing against each other playing off up to 4 different sets of tees.

Two points:
1. You say it was a comp, was it a qualifier for handicap purposes? Your club has the facility on the EG WHS platform to ‘untick’ those tees that do not meet qualifying course requirements and the comp committee have the facility to select ‘non qualifying’ in the comp set up.
2. I think it is usually the case that where there are shots to be adjusted, in the example given, there is an option to either add the 2 shots to the whites or reduce by 2 shots the yellows. If the majority will play from the whites, then the adjustment (-2) should be to those going from the yellows.

 

[Bdill93]

This is not the case everywhere. Certainly not my current and previous clubs.

Other than board comps, the course is set up the same every day.

Same! We're lucky if a pin moves once a week!

 

[Imurg]

If there is a comp on a particular day at mine then the course is exactly the same the next day and possibly even the day after too...

 

[wjemather]

Defo not within tolerance, some holes as much as 40 yards further forwards and probably on 12+ holes we played tees more than 10 yards ahead of the tombstones.

That is my primary issue with general play cards too - no course is EVER setup for general play as it is for a comp, certainly not within 10 yards on every hole either.

Comps mean 3 things; tees at the tomb stones, pins much closer to the edges, greens cut and rolled.

General play; forward tees, easier and more familiar pins, greens furry.

But I’m massively dismissive of general play cards due to how I’ve seen them used and abused since introduction of WHS

Courses should be setup the same irrespective of there being a competition. Handicap committees should be on top of this and be liaising with their greens committee to ensure the course is setup in accordance with the Rules of Handicapping at all times (when scores are to be submitted).

 

[rulie]

Courses should be setup the same irrespective of there being a competition. Handicap committees should be on top of this and be liaising with their greens committee to ensure the course is setup in accordance with the Rules of Handicapping at all times (when scores are to be submitted).

With general play scores being entered, isn't that every day?

 

[wjemather]

With general play scores being entered, isn't that every day?

In general, yes.
However, there will be rare occasions when that is not the case, e.g. cross country, greenkeepers revenge, etc.

 

[nickjdavis]

I am aware that many courses have similar practices, but it is simply not acceptable from a handicapping perspective.

It's not an acceptable way to run a comp either.

 

[clubchamp98]

To be acceptable for handicapping, courses must be setup within the tolerances of the rating system. This means daily tee markers placed within 10 yards of the permanent distance markers, total length variance within 100 yards, and course setup as "normal" (e.g. rough height, green speed, hole locations, etc.).

From what you are saying about the white tees being moved forward, it sounds like they are highly unlikely to be within tolerance, and so players will be getting an unfair advantage by playing from those tees.

I am aware that many courses have similar practices, but it is simply not acceptable from a handicapping perspective.

That’s most courses in the UK

White tees pushed up to protect comp tee.
Rough height is cut down.
Green speed equal in winter no chance.
Hole locations most stick it in the front of the green
Imo No GP cards should go in Oct to March.

 

[rulefan]

That’s most courses in the UK

White tees pushed up to protect comp tee.
Rough height is cut down.
Green speed equal in winter no chance.
Hole locations most stick it in the front of the green
Imo No GP cards should go in Oct to March.

What proportion of the clubs in the UK are you that familiar with?

 

[clubchamp98]

What proportion of the clubs in the UK are you that familiar with?

I work on lots of them .
I play on the courses we work on if we have time.

Hundreds

 

[IanM]

What proportion of the clubs in the UK are you that familiar with?

I guess he has played lots of courses in the winter As most of us have.. there's nothing radical in that list.

Although I'd query some of the impact of the above, as some courses seem less playable in winter as they are muddy!!

 

[clubchamp98]

I guess he has played lots of courses in the winter As most of us have.. there's nothing radical in that list.

Although I'd query some of the impact of the above, as some courses seem less playable in winter as they are muddy!!

We do most of our work on courses in the off season .

We always try and get a freebie after work ,light permitting.

 

[Viewer]

I assume you have brought this to the attention of your handicap committee so that they can educate these golfers.

Why? Can’t you play 9 Am and the 9 Pm is the weather is nice?

 

[Viewer]

Courses should be setup the same irrespective of there being a competition. Handicap committees should be on top of this and be liaising with their greens committee to ensure the course is setup in accordance with the Rules of Handicapping at all times (when scores are to be submitted).

You’re not a green keeper are you?!

 

[wjemather]

Why? Can’t you play 9 Am and the 9 Pm is the weather is nice?

You can, but not if the intent is to manipulate your handicap by rapidly flushing scores out of the most recent 20.

 

[Viewer]

You can, but not if the intent is to manipulate your handicap by rapidly flushing scores out of the most recent 20.

I assume that is in the rules of golf or whs then - I thought they asked you to record all rounds as GP scores? So is this scenario not just a subjective view from those who aren’t actually submitting the rounds.

Is it any different really to going out in a comp, realising you can’t win so then just having hockey round the holes to get your score up or just NRing after 12 holes or whatever it is?

 

[2blue]

I assume that is in the rules of golf or whs then - I thought they asked you to record all rounds as GP scores? So is this scenario not just a subjective view from those who aren’t actually submitting the rounds.

Is it any different really to going out in a comp, realising you can’t win so then just having hockey round the holes to get your score up or just NRing after 12 holes or whatever it is?

Playing partners should be passing that info on. NR's should be investigated as to WHY? Penalty scores should be applied where necessary.

 

[wjemather]

I assume that is in the rules of golf or whs then - I thought they asked you to record all rounds as GP scores? So is this scenario not just a subjective view from those who aren’t actually submitting the rounds.

Is it any different really to going out in a comp, realising you can’t win so then just having hockey round the holes to get your score up or just NRing after 12 holes or whatever it is?

The rules of handicapping.

Among other things, players are expected to act with integrity and attempt to make the best score on every hole irrespective of any competition or how badly they are playing.

 

[2blue]

That’s most courses in the UK

White tees pushed up to protect comp tee.
Rough height is cut down.
Green speed equal in winter no chance.
Hole locations most stick it in the front of the green
Imo No GP cards should go in Oct to March.

NAY LAD!!! Surely that should be only on dry, sunny, windless days when the player has had a good nights sleep, feeling up for it, with their 'Match-head on' & they're not frustrated by slow players ahead or fast players pushing them from behind!! Hahha... welcome to the real world of a WHS H/cap for all seasons on all courses either home or away in all sorts of conditions.