Amount of cards required for comps

[Ye Olde Boomer]

There are lots of non board comps ( approx 3 a month ) that someone can play in

Ah! I guess that I'm not fully understanding the meaning of "board comp," then.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Ah! I guess that I'm not fully understanding the meaning of "board comp," then.

It’s a long established comp where the winner gets their name put on a board around the club or a trophy etc

 

[clubchamp98]

At ours it’s only 3 per an.
Tbh if you can’t or won’t ! Get three or four cards in per 12 months to be eligible for a comp win you don’t deserve to win anyway imo.

Your wasting your time as a member of a golf club.

But want to enter only comps you can win with a dodgy handicap.

I would make it 10 ! 8 comps and 2 GP

 

[federalexpress]

I'm curious to understand why a general play cards, completed and signed by a fellow member would have less veracity than one completed and signed the same way in a competition.

If people are going to collude to cheat, then they will find a way of cheating. I doubt that is very many out there. I can see how those who rarely put cards in at all may be badly (or perhaps, well) handicapped. So you do need cards put in. But why not general play? This is especially for people like me who much prefers social golf, but might want to play in one or two competitions, if I have friends also doing so. Setting a minimum I have to play in each year would be a big turn off.

Surely the very few people who 'cook' their handicaps will be very quickly exposed for what they are. And let's face it, as far as I can see, most are playing for not much, a cheap trophy maybe and a few quid.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm curious to understand why a general play cards, completed and signed by a fellow member would have less veracity than one completed and signed the same way in a competition.

If people are going to collude to cheat, then they will find a way of cheating. I doubt that is very many out there. I can see how those who rarely put cards in at all may be badly (or perhaps, well) handicapped. So you do need cards put in. But why not general play? This is especially for people like me who much prefers social golf, but might want to play in one or two competitions, if I have friends also doing so. Setting a minimum I have to play in each year would be a big turn off.

Surely the very few people who 'cook' their handicaps will be very quickly exposed for what they are. And let's face it, as far as I can see, most are playing for not much, a cheap trophy maybe and a few quid.

Indeed, you could just play purposely badly in a competition to get a high handicap, might be hard to tell if that is on purpose or just bad golf.

But, I suppose the theory is that by playing in competitions, especially drawn competitions, you have more eyes on you. You may play with people that are less likely to be "soft" on you like a mate playing a casual round might be? And, if you are going to play purposely badly, it is a lot of effort to pay for a competition and turn up to play with other members just to play badly on purpose? Whereas for a casual round, there might be the odd person who could go out, play decent with a mate, be a bit colorful with the scorecard at the end and know that their mate isn't going to report them to Committee? Maybe there mate is in on it as well, lots of different types play golf.

I put in all my social scores, as do many of my mates, and I know that those scores are perfectly fine, played under the rules, etc. I'm sure the vast majority are the same. I also wouldn't trust 100% of scores in 100% of competitions across the UK, I'm sure some are a result of dodgy behavior. Although I suspect a higher proportion of dodgy scores would be submitted as GP scores. Possibly by people that never really play comps and never get a decent grasp on the rules, as they've never played with anyone to correct them when they've got it wrong. And also by people that purposely stay away from the scrutiny of as many golfers as possible to "cook" those handicaps

I'm not sure these golfers are always identified as quickly as you'd like. By definition, they are staying away from competitions, and so if they breeze through a club match play one year, is it because they've got a cooked handicap, or just because someone had to win, and they won fair and square? Many may also play in Opens, and I'm not sure many of these report back to clubs (although technically 4BBB should now go to handicap IF the team get a good score), although I've yet to see this happen, having played in 5 4BBB since April

 

[Baz The Wordsmith]

This makes it difficult for people who don't like to play many organized events to establish a valid handicap for the few they play.

I play in two organized member-guest events each year,
and those are the only comps in which I have any interest to play.
Other than that, it's weekday fun golf with my gang of geriatric miscreants.

But I enjoy those two reciprocal events.
They're all day affairs with dinner and all, one at my club and one at my old friend's.

 

[Baz The Wordsmith]

You clearly fall in to the category that are hit by the scattergun approach to eliminate or at least make it more difficult for bandits. I hear you, I get it. But you have two formal comps right there. You only need 1 more and three generals. I believe that if people dont regularly update their handicap then its not accurate enough to compete fairly. Your stance seems quite rigid ( only two comps set in stone and unwilling to submit any more). You cant have an accurate handicap at all under WHS.

 

[Baz The Wordsmith]

Indeed, you could just play purposely badly in a competition to get a high handicap, might be hard to tell if that is on purpose or just bad golf.

But, I suppose the theory is that by playing in competitions, especially drawn competitions, you have more eyes on you. You may play with people that are less likely to be "soft" on you like a mate playing a casual round might be? And, if you are going to play purposely badly, it is a lot of effort to pay for a competition and turn up to play with other members just to play badly on purpose? Whereas for a casual round, there might be the odd person who could go out, play decent with a mate, be a bit colorful with the scorecard at the end and know that their mate isn't going to report them to Committee? Maybe there mate is in on it as well, lots of different types play golf.

I put in all my social scores, as do many of my mates, and I know that those scores are perfectly fine, played under the rules, etc. I'm sure the vast majority are the same. I also wouldn't trust 100% of scores in 100% of competitions across the UK, I'm sure some are a result of dodgy behavior. Although I suspect a higher proportion of dodgy scores would be submitted as GP scores. Possibly by people that never really play comps and never get a decent grasp on the rules, as they've never played with anyone to correct them when they've got it wrong. And also by people that purposely stay away from the scrutiny of as many golfers as possible to "cook" those handicaps

I'm not sure these golfers are always identified as quickly as you'd like. By definition, they are staying away from competitions, and so if they breeze through a club match play one year, is it because they've got a cooked handicap, or just because someone had to win, and they won fair and square? Many may also play in Opens, and I'm not sure many of these report back to clubs (although technically 4BBB should now go to handicap IF the team get a good score), although I've yet to see this happen, having played in 5 4BBB since April

So an example might be someone who as you say doesnt want to play in formal comps ( i think many might learn more about the rules if they did).Then play in club matchplay comps with a generous handicap and also win team events with this handicap.
Maybe this person has not submitted any cards for some time because the handicap does not expire in WHS. in the meantime they may have improved by 6 strokes. That is not right.

 

[Baz The Wordsmith]

I'm curious to understand why a general play cards, completed and signed by a fellow member would have less veracity than one completed and signed the same way in a competition.

If people are going to collude to cheat, then they will find a way of cheating. I doubt that is very many out there. I can see how those who rarely put cards in at all may be badly (or perhaps, well) handicapped. So you do need cards put in. But why not general play? This is especially for people like me who much prefers social golf, but might want to play in one or two competitions, if I have friends also doing so. Setting a minimum I have to play in each year would be a big turn off.

Surely the very few people who 'cook' their handicaps will be very quickly exposed for what they are. And let's face it, as far as I can see, most are playing for not much, a cheap trophy maybe and a few quid.

Because the “ few quid” can be 110 pound each for a team of four in a scramble with questionable handicaps.

 

[federalexpress]

Indeed, you could just play purposely badly in a competition to get a high handicap, might be hard to tell if that is on purpose or just bad golf.

But, I suppose the theory is that by playing in competitions, especially drawn competitions, you have more eyes on you. You may play with people that are less likely to be "soft" on you like a mate playing a casual round might be? And, if you are going to play purposely badly, it is a lot of effort to pay for a competition and turn up to play with other members just to play badly on purpose? Whereas for a casual round, there might be the odd person who could go out, play decent with a mate, be a bit colorful with the scorecard at the end and know that their mate isn't going to report them to Committee? Maybe there mate is in on it as well, lots of different types play golf.

I put in all my social scores, as do many of my mates, and I know that those scores are perfectly fine, played under the rules, etc. I'm sure the vast majority are the same. I also wouldn't trust 100% of scores in 100% of competitions across the UK, I'm sure some are a result of dodgy behavior. Although I suspect a higher proportion of dodgy scores would be submitted as GP scores. Possibly by people that never really play comps and never get a decent grasp on the rules, as they've never played with anyone to correct them when they've got it wrong. And also by people that purposely stay away from the scrutiny of as many golfers as possible to "cook" those handicaps

I'm not sure these golfers are always identified as quickly as you'd like. By definition, they are staying away from competitions, and so if they breeze through a club match play one year, is it because they've got a cooked handicap, or just because someone had to win, and they won fair and square? Many may also play in Opens, and I'm not sure many of these report back to clubs (although technically 4BBB should now go to handicap IF the team get a good score), although I've yet to see this happen, having played in 5 4BBB since April

Thanks for your reply most of which I concur with. To the extent we have the capacity to cheat, I think it can occur for either. Maybe a bit harder in comps but you can always miss a few putts (especially me as I do that anyway).

I'm not sure how you could verify handicaps in a 4BBB, given, I assume, any one player is unlikely to have more than 6-9 holes completed. Same for club matches (which I do sometimes play in, albeit they are friendlies). I do think in individual comps, those who win and/or do well get a handicap cut, in fact I think our club's handicap committee can make an additional adjustment if they see fit (not sure about that given I rarely play in them). Tbh, it just seems like a sledgehammer to crack what is almost certainly walnut sized and will definitely discourage participation. My club has a majority who either don't play in comps or only do so infrequently.

I have had challenges with handicaps in the club matches I mention. Some seem totally out of kilter with what I witness for example 28 handicappers hitting the green in regulation on 440 yard holes in non running conditions. I'm not a low handicapper at 11, but I think the low handicappers in these matches do mostly lose matches against higher handicappers. However that might be more to do with dodgy course ratings or maybe that the % handicap allowed needs to be lower in 4 ball matches, because often the reason people have a high handicap is because they crash and burn quite frequently, but that is less of a problem if a mate is covering.

PS I find my social golf mates are generally quite keen to see my handicap cut, if anything, so would be unlikely to collude in me increasing it. If anything, they accuse me of sandbagging if I spoil a decent round, when really it is just my shortfall of talent...

 

[Swango1980]

So an example might be someone who as you say doesnt want to play in formal comps ( i think many might learn more about the rules if they did).Then play in club matchplay comps with a generous handicap and also win team events with this handicap.
Maybe this person has not submitted any cards for some time because the handicap does not expire in WHS. in the meantime they may have improved by 6 strokes. That is not right.

Indeed, it is not right. Hence why many clubs seem to request that their handicap record includes a certain number of competitions, and thus hopefully a more reflective handicap

 

[federalexpress]

Because the “ few quid” can be 110 pound each for a team of four in a scramble with questionable handicaps.

OK but it usually isn't in the few I've played in. However my main query was why general play cards should be automatically regarded as inferior to competition scores because you can cheat and sandbag in either (in fact with my social golf mates, it would be harder because they know my general level).

If you said you should not play in those team events unless you have 3 or 6 (or more) cards submitted of whatever type in the previous 6 or 12 months, I'd see your point. In fact I think the ones I've played in have required a minimum number of cards (any type) or you don't get any prizes of any type. See also my comment above about club matches (which I do sometimes play in), although we have partly fixed this by making pairs have roughly the same handicaps.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

You clearly fall in to the category that are hit by the scattergun approach to eliminate or at least make it more difficult for bandits. I hear you, I get it. But you have two formal comps right there. You only need 1 more and three generals. I believe that if people dont regularly update their handicap then its not accurate enough to compete fairly. Your stance seems quite rigid ( only two comps set in stone and unwilling to submit any more). You cant have an accurate handicap at all under WHS.

Yup. I get it. I don't like it, but I do get it.

I once had another friend with whom I reciprocated member-guest invitations, but he had the effrontery to die on me.
His course ate me alive anyway, so while I may miss him, I don't miss it.

 

[KenL]

No rules on this sort of thing at my place, I wish there was!

 

[jim8flog]

we only have a requirement for Opens

 

[Baz The Wordsmith]

Thanks to everyone who replied.
There is some concern about reducing numbers in Opens being linked to such rules but I think it is multifactorial. Cost of living/ The Euros this year and maybe even the weather with a wet summer.
It is difficult to find the right balance of having people submit cards to maintain an accurate handicap without causing annoyance to some.
To me the 3 counting comps and three GPs is a very gentle stipulation but still some revolt.
There is a wide array of numbers/ requirements out there and perhaps it should be standardised and not fall to individual committees.

 

[SocketRocket]

I can understand there being a requirement for say 4 or 6 qualifying cards in the previous 12 months to win a board comp with a cash prize. I don't understand why a prerequisite should be playing in a certain number of competitions as well. Why should someone have to pay to enter a competition when they are not allowed to win anything?
If the qualifying cards have been played and marked to the rules then that's enough in my opinion.

 

[Crazyface]

Some mixed opens comps are now asking for x amount of cards to be competition cards. This means me and the wife are now restricted as she does not play in any comps at her own club. In fact does not enjoy playing in the opens either, but a drag her to them. Lol. I understand why they have put this in place but the wife's handicap just keeps coming down, apart from the odd blip. She wants it to come down! Oh well.

 

[Swango1980]

Some mixed opens comps are now asking for x amount of cards to be competition cards. This means me and the wife are now restricted as she does not play in any comps at her own club. In fact does not enjoy playing in the opens either, but a drag her to them. Lol. I understand why they have put this in place but the wife's handicap just keeps coming down, apart from the odd blip. She wants it to come down! Oh well.

Sounds like she is loving this condition clubs are putting on entry to Opens then

 

[Baz The Wordsmith]

I can understand there being a requirement for say 4 or 6 qualifying cards in the previous 12 months to win a board comp with a cash prize. I don't understand why a prerequisite should be playing in a certain number of competitions as well. Why should someone have to pay to enter a competition when they are not allowed to win anything?
If the qualifying cards have been played and marked to the rules then that's enough in my opinion.

You mean like 4 or 6 General Plays rather than comps?