Roll Up Group Handicaps

[HomerJSimpson]

You draw the line when you decide the format you are playing. Social or competition.

But we play social golf in our roll ups. We were operating handicap cuts until a month ago but we all played by the rules even then. We hole everything and we'd never entertain dropping OOB or from a divot. It is still socialable and we enjoy it. I was worried when the club asked us to put GP cards in but so far there have been no issues. Money still gets paid out, people enjoy their golf and we have a laugh in the bar

 

[3 jabber]

But we play social golf in our roll ups. We were operating handicap cuts until a month ago but we all played by the rules even then. We hole everything and we'd never entertain dropping OOB or from a divot. It is still socialable and we enjoy it. I was worried when the club asked us to put GP cards in but so far there have been no issues. Money still gets paid out, people enjoy their golf and we have a laugh in the bar

Great I'm glad you are enjoying your golf.

 

[wjemather]

You draw the line when you decide the format you are playing. Social or competition.

These are not formats; nor are they mutually exclusive.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You draw the line when you decide the format you are playing. Social or competition.

Exactly that

If we are playing in a club competition then every rule is followed

If it’s just our regular bunch on a Saturday that have booked tee times to play with friends then we just do what we decide between us

 

[Neilds]

But we play social golf in our roll ups. We were operating handicap cuts until a month ago but we all played by the rules even then. We hole everything and we'd never entertain dropping OOB or from a divot. It is still socialable and we enjoy it. I was worried when the club asked us to put GP cards in but so far there have been no issues. Money still gets paid out, people enjoy their golf and we have a laugh in the bar

You play your version of social golf, others play their own version. No way is wrong, it is just what suits. There is no black and white definition of what constitutes social golf.

 

[Crow]

Here's a solution:
- Golf is played to the rules of golf.
- Golfy is a different game altogether where the participants play to their own rules, which may closely resemble those of the R&A.

Golf is played in competitions and by golfers who wish every score to count.

Golfy is played by golfers outside of competitions when they want to play a casual, social game.

 

[Imurg]

Here's a solution:
- Golf is played to the rules of golf.
- Golfy is a different game altogether where the participants play to their own rules, which may closely resemble those of the R&A.

Golf is played in competitions and by golfers who wish every score to count.

Golfy is played by golfers outside of competitions when they want to play a casual, social game.

But that would mean Tim would never be able to put a card in........

 

[Tashyboy]

World Handicap System manipulators are cheats - says R&A

Golf bosses are warning recreational players to avoid cheating on their handicaps.

www.bbc.co.uk

The first comment hits the nail firmly on the head.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Stick cards in. It isn't a big deal and handicaps are a true reflection of where you are (imo - although my club is pushing hard to ensure we are complying)

 

[Tashyboy]

Over the last couple of days I have had an email from the Club secretary re putting in a card after every round, I have also received an email from England Golf endorsing this with a YouTube video to watch. Add on top of this the link I have posted from the BBC and I get the distinct impression that R and A, England golf etc have decided to push the scoring system that was introduced 4 years ago.
The ultimate idea is to
quote.
“We want people to return as many general play scores as possible," Moir said. "That's when the new handicap system comes into its own and reflects current form and ability."

I totally get this. However and this is where I have a major major problem with WHS.
Look at the photo I have attached. Two people on the same day in the same comp at our place scored 56 points and he came second to a winner with 57 points. That’s 21 under par. For a scratch golfer to be able to compete they would have to shoot a 51/52 gross.
It don’t matter how many cards you put in during the year to get a handicap that “reflects current form and ability”. Because there is no way on gods earth a player playing off scratch is scoring anywhere near 60 never mind 51/52 Gross. Why? Because in its ultimate wisdom, the people who instigated WHS believed and still believes that a maximum handicap of 54 is fair.

 

[GreiginFife]

Over the last couple of days I have had an email from the Club secretary re putting in a card after every round, I have also received an email from England Golf endorsing this with a YouTube video to watch. Add on top of this the link I have posted from the BBC and I get the distinct impression that R and A, England golf etc have decided to push the scoring system that was introduced 4 years ago.
The ultimate idea is to
quote.
“We want people to return as many general play scores as possible," Moir said. "That's when the new handicap system comes into its own and reflects current form and ability."

I totally get this. However and this is where I have a major major problem with WHS.
Look at the photo I have attached. Two people on the same day in the same comp at our place scored 56 points and he came second to a winner with 57 points. That’s 21 under par. For a scratch golfer to be able to compete they would have to shoot a 51/52 gross.
It don’t matter how many cards you put in during the year to get a handicap that “reflects current form and ability”. Because there is no way on gods earth a player playing off scratch is scoring anywhere near 60 never mind 51/52 Gross. Why? Because in its ultimate wisdom, the people who instigated WHS believed and still believes that a maximum handicap of 54 is fair.

21 under HANDICAP surely.

 

[IanM]

56 and 57?

"I shot 56 points and lost!" Not something you'd expect to hear.

 

[Tashyboy]

56 and 57?

"I shot 56 points and lost!" Not something you'd expect to hear.

To be honest Ian I didn’t really want to post names but sometimes folk might think one/me is telling porkies unless they actually see it. I Did have a look at the dates they scored them and they were a month or two before the official launch of the WHS I believe, but I had a look on there profiles and they were playing off “, top end handicaps”. One has actually stopped playing golf at our place.

 

[rosecott]

Over the last couple of days I have had an email from the Club secretary re putting in a card after every round, I have also received an email from England Golf endorsing this with a YouTube video to watch. Add on top of this the link I have posted from the BBC and I get the distinct impression that R and A, England golf etc have decided to push the scoring system that was introduced 4 years ago.
The ultimate idea is to
quote.
“We want people to return as many general play scores as possible," Moir said. "That's when the new handicap system comes into its own and reflects current form and ability."

I totally get this. However and this is where I have a major major problem with WHS.
Look at the photo I have attached. Two people on the same day in the same comp at our place scored 56 points and he came second to a winner with 57 points. That’s 21 under par. For a scratch golfer to be able to compete they would have to shoot a 51/52 gross.
It don’t matter how many cards you put in during the year to get a handicap that “reflects current form and ability”. Because there is no way on gods earth a player playing off scratch is scoring anywhere near 60 never mind 51/52 Gross. Why? Because in its ultimate wisdom, the people who instigated WHS believed and still believes that a maximum handicap of 54 is fair.

I have no idea what was the source of the image you posted but I have checked out one of the scores shown.

On 27 September 2020, Hugo scored an adjusted 106 with HI 30.5 and PH 33 and a Score Differential of 32.5 – Par 72, Slope 127, CR 70.5.

This does not equate to 56 points or anything like it.

 

[Tashyboy]

I have no idea what was the source of the image you posted but I have checked out one of the scores shown.

On 27 September 2020, Hugo scored an adjusted 106 with HI 30.5 and PH 33 and a Score Differential of 32.5 – Par 72, Slope 127, CR 70.5.

This does not equate to 56 points or anything like it.

If not why was has it been on our opening page on the club since 2020. I don’t know the answer to that.

Edit, just found that.

 

[rosecott]

If not why was has it been on our opening page on the club since 2020. I don’t know the answer to that.

Edit, just found that.

I have no idea but the 45 points shown was genuine - by an 8 handicapper registering a Score Differential of 1.5, not a high handicapper making hay at the expense of the low handicappers.

I won't go into details but the 57 points is also rubbish.

 

[wjemather]

Over the last couple of days I have had an email from the Club secretary re putting in a card after every round, I have also received an email from England Golf endorsing this with a YouTube video to watch. Add on top of this the link I have posted from the BBC and I get the distinct impression that R and A, England golf etc have decided to push the scoring system that was introduced 4 years ago.
The ultimate idea is to
quote.
“We want people to return as many general play scores as possible," Moir said. "That's when the new handicap system comes into its own and reflects current form and ability."

I totally get this. However and this is where I have a major major problem with WHS.
Look at the photo I have attached. Two people on the same day in the same comp at our place scored 56 points and he came second to a winner with 57 points. That’s 21 under par. For a scratch golfer to be able to compete they would have to shoot a 51/52 gross.
It don’t matter how many cards you put in during the year to get a handicap that “reflects current form and ability”. Because there is no way on gods earth a player playing off scratch is scoring anywhere near 60 never mind 51/52 Gross. Why? Because in its ultimate wisdom, the people who instigated WHS believed and still believes that a maximum handicap of 54 is fair.

But your photo has nothing to do with WHS as the comp was over a month prior to implementation here?? If anything it's an illustration of how poor the old CONGU UHS system was.

Juniors have increased potential for rapid improvement and much higher potential for exceptional scores as a result. They had even more potential to post exceptional scores pre-WHS when they wouldn't be submitting the volume of General Play scores they would be now, and their handicaps would lag far behind their improvement between competitions, even more so if not afforded those opportunities regularly. Under WHS, the likelihood is that those Stableford scores would be substantially lower because the players' handicaps would have better reflected their abilities.

 

[rosecott]

But your photo has nothing to do with WHS as the comp was over a month prior to implementation here?? If anything it's an illustration of how poor the old CONGU UHS system was.

Juniors have increased potential for rapid improvement and much higher potential for exceptional scores as a result. They had even more potential to post exceptional scores pre-WHS when they wouldn't be submitting the volume of General Play scores they would be now, and their handicaps would lag far behind their improvement between competitions, even more so if not afforded those opportunities regularly. Under WHS, the likelihood is that those Stableford scores would be substantially lower because the players' handicaps would have better reflected their abilities.

As I remember it, scores prior to the introduction of WHS in 2020 were converted to the WHS format. Perhaps, in the case of Tashy's club, the scores lost something in the conversion.

 

[wjemather]

As I remember it, scores prior to the introduction of WHS in 2020 were converted to the WHS format. Perhaps, in the case of Tashy's club, the scores lost something in the conversion.

Yeah, you won't see the UHS handicaps at the time on the portal for anything pre-WHS; only a projected WHS HI based on score differentials calculated from the ratings and score information held in the old CDH.

 

[Tashyboy]

But your photo has nothing to do with WHS as the comp was over a month prior to implementation here?? If anything it's an illustration of how poor the old CONGU UHS system was.

Juniors have increased potential for rapid improvement and much higher potential for exceptional scores as a result. They had even more potential to post exceptional scores pre-WHS when they wouldn't be submitting the volume of General Play scores they would be now, and their handicaps would lag far behind their improvement between competitions, even more so if not afforded those opportunities regularly. Under WHS, the likelihood is that those Stableford scores would be substantially lower because the players' handicaps would have better reflected their abilities.

This is his starting hcap from October 2020, the month after his 56. If he had been off WHS. his Stableford score could of been in higher.
Another thing that puzzles me. If you have shot a 56 points in a comp. A month later how do you start a new WHS System with a hcap of 40.