Roll Up Group Handicaps

[Arthur Wedge]

I agree.

The WHS/EG primary aim is laudable though and the issue is finding the solution that caters for all clubs/comps/players, when making use of an official handicap

As I said above, I don’t want anyone to have to put a card in just because they putted out etc but... neither do I want to play in a comp with that same fella with a roll-up handicap that’s say 4+ shots lower than his WHS handicap

Ideally we should be discussing alternative options not just the 'you gotta do it cos... / nah I'm not doing it cos...' viewpoints

Exactly

As a group once a month we play off the whites and putt out and most of us putt our cards in , the guys in their mid 70’s that play with us - don’t bother and we certainly aren’t going to force them

We put cards in when we go away , when we have society days

we all put in plenty of cards and have found our own balance without the need to be dictated too

I know some swindles they all putt cards in every time they play , and some never will

It’s people acting like grown adults and being trusted

If someone wants to find a way to win they will do regardless of what rule is forced down their throat

 

[wjemather]

Clearly you do not understand the concept of fun golf

All golf is fun.
Maybe you are doing something wrong if you find some of it isn't?

 

[wjemather]

I haven't submitted a card for about four years, when I stopped playing in Club comps.

However,I may occasionally play in a roll up not organized by the Club and play off my last known handicap.

I am damned if I am going to start faffing about submitting cards just to satisfy WHS which , as far as I recall, was presented as a fait accompli rather than an option to consider.

So no different than any previous handicap system, but the suggestion is that you had no problem with them?

Also, it's not a matter of "satisfying WHS" - what a bizarre notion that is. You might simply want to consider submitting scores to ensure that when you do play in rollups, you are doing so fairly? You know, get an accurate handicap so that you are not putting yourself at a disadvantage, or worse disadvantaging those you are playing with?

 

[wjemather]

Exactly

As a group once a month we play off the whites and putt out and most of us putt our cards in , the guys in their mid 70’s that play with us - don’t bother and we certainly aren’t going to force them

We put cards in when we go away , when we have society days

we all put in plenty of cards and have found our own balance without the need to be dictated too

I know some swindles they all putt cards in every time they play , and some never will

It’s people acting like grown adults and being trusted

If someone wants to find a way to win they will do regardless of what rule is forced down their throat

Do you maintain a list of which rules are ok to break, and which are not?
Might be interesting to know where you draw the line on integrity.

 

[3 jabber]

All golf is fun.
Maybe you are doing something wrong if you find some of it isn't?

Putting in a card when I just want to have a laugh with my mates isn't fun.

 

[wjemather]

Putting in a card when I just want to have a laugh with my mates isn't fun.

You're definitely doing it wrong if that's the case, but no-one is forcing you to, so why are you getting upset about it?

 

[3 jabber]

Which is worse

Submitting a card when playing in a social rollup when I might try shots I wouldn't normally try such as trying to carry a lake or a flop shot over a bunker which would lead to a HI far higher than my true ability

or

Playing in a competition that I could potentially win with that inflated handicap?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Do you maintain a list of which rules are ok to break, and which are not?
Might be interesting to know where you draw the line on integrity.

No need to maintain a list - common sense applies

 

[wjemather]

Which is worse

Submitting a card when playing in a social rollup when I might try shots I wouldn't normally try such as trying to carry a lake or a flop shot over a bunker which would lead to a HI far higher than my true ability

or

Playing in a competition that I could potentially win with that inflated handicap?

This perception doesn't reflect the reality, so the second option is moot.

 

[3 jabber]

This perception doesn't reflect the reality, so the second option is moot.

That's interesting. I don't quite understand how submitting 20 cards with scores higher than my usual competition scores doesn't increase my HI.
You really need to take off your rose tinted WHS specs and try to understand why the majority of people actually play golf.

 

[wjemather]

No need to maintain a list - common sense applies

Some people think it's common sense to get a free drop out of a divot or away from a tree root even though the rules do not permit such actions.
Are they ok to follow their common sense rather than the rules?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Some people think it's common sense to get a free drop out of a divot or away from a tree root even though the rules do not permit such actions.
Are they ok to follow their common sense rather than the rules?

When playing social golf in their swindle that exactly what we do

and of course there are rules that allow both

 

[Slab]

Yes all golf is fun but there’s still different kinds of fun

If your hobby is cooking then it’s fun to cook the family dinner, it’s a different kind of fun to cook for a dinner party which itself is different to the fun in cooking a dish for a competition

You can’t just mandate to place the same emphasis on the results of the family dinner as it'd be for the comp

 

[wjemather]

That's interesting. I don't quite understand how submitting 20 cards with scores higher than my usual competition scores doesn't increase my HI.
You really need to take off your rose tinted WHS specs and try to understand why the majority of people actually play golf.

Your assumption that the scores would be much higher due to attempting the odd hero shot is flawed.
And even if your competition scores were much better, your handicap would be based on them, not the much higher scores.

 

[wjemather]

When playing social golf in their swindle that exactly what we do

This has been said countless times already... such scores are not acceptable for handicapping, and no-one is forcing you to change anything to make them acceptable.

You are getting upset about something that isn't even being suggested.

 

[wjemather]

Yes all golf is fun but there’s still different kinds of fun

If your hobby is cooking then it’s fun to cook the family dinner, it’s a different kind of fun to cook for a dinner party which itself is different to the fun in cooking a dish for a competition

You can’t just mandate to place the same emphasis on the results of the family dinner as it'd be for the comp

There are also many different levels of official competition, but no-one seems to be suggesting they be treated differently from each other.

1. a General Play round
2. a regular informal rollup competition meeting the requirements for an acceptable score
3. an official club Stableford competition
4. a 36-hole medal for the club championship
5. a 72-hole medal with a cut for the county or national championship
6. The Open Championship

3 has far more in common with 1 than is does 5 or 6; there is less difference between 2 and 3 than there is 3 and 4 or 5; and all are treated the same for handicapping.

 

[3 jabber]

Your assumption that the scores would be much higher due to attempting the odd hero shot is flawed.
And even if your competition scores were much better, your handicap would be based on them, not the much higher scores.

Wrong. And you conveniently missed the bit about all 20 counting scores being fun rounds that aren't taken seriously.

Like I said, you can't see the flaws in WHS so it's pointless us debating this any further.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

This has been said countless times already... such scores are not acceptable for handicapping, and no-one is forcing you to change anything to make them acceptable.

You are getting upset about something that isn't even being suggested.

So what was this about “circumventing” the rules

 

[Slab]

So what was this about “circumventing” the rules

I think its;

• If your roll-up format/rules don’t meet the WHS conditions = you don’t / can’t submit. Carry on nothing to see here. WHS not interested
• If your roll-up does meet the conditions and the organiser changes the format/rules with the sole purpose of making it ineligible for WHS = that’s circumnavigating you naughty so & so

I could be wrong though

 

[wjemather]

So what was this about “circumventing” the rules

There is a clear difference between having pre-existing rules that mean scores not acceptable, and introducing such rules with the express intention of making scores not acceptable.