Open play handicaps and club opens

[KenL]

Do you know if your club allows people who are not members at another club and have an official open play handicap, from the likes of Scottish Golf or England Golf, allow people to enter their open comps?

If not, why not?

Thanks.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I've just asked ours. As long as you have a CDH number you can play. However, you must have 6 competition rounds in the last 12 months in order to win a prize.

So, if you have a non club handicap, you can play but not win (unless past opens count on your h/c). That is pretty standard for the Opens I enter (the 6 x comp rounds element)

 

[NearHull]

Entry condition for our Opens.

All entrants to be members of an Affiliated Golf Club and must have submitted a
minimum of six scores for WHS Handicap purposes. These submissions must
have been played during the preceding twelve months of the day of the
competition and include a minimum of three from Competition play. Where one
member of a team of two, three or four players has not submitted the required
six Acceptable Scores, the whole team will be ineligible to win a prize.

 

[jim8flog]

Do you know if your club allows people who are not members at another club and have an official open play handicap, from the likes of Scottish Golf or England Golf, allow people to enter their open comps?

If not, why not?

Thanks.

Because it is some thing I would not bother checking

 

[wjemather]

Do you know if your club allows people who are not members at another club and have an official open play handicap, from the likes of Scottish Golf or England Golf, allow people to enter their open comps?

If not, why not?

Thanks.

Yes, we allow anyone with an official WHS handicap to enter our opens; we do not require them to be members of an affiliated golf club.

We also have no restrictions on the number of scores submitted, but do reserve the right to review the handicap record of any visitor to ensure their index is a fair reflection of their ability (although it's never needed to be done).

I've found that boosted handicaps tend to be more often found in charity/society/company days (we run a few big ones every year through our software), where there can be lots of unofficial handicaps and the odd player thinks they deserve a few extra shots (probably the worst I saw last year were a current 5 handicapper claiming 12 shots, and a fairly recent single figure golfer who still plays occasionally claiming more than 18).

 

[Arthur Wedge]

We don’t have opens but looking to create a seniors one

We have invitational day and you can be an Igolf member to play in it

Our Open will look to have the same level of entry criteria as a club board comp

4 scores from competitions in the last 12 months rolling

But we are looking at changes to make it 4 in your last 20 scores or 6 in the last 12 months

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But we are looking at changes to make it 4 in your last 20 scores or 6 in the last 12 months

4 in your last 20 penalises those who enter GP cards. They may have 4 comp cards in the last 12 months but because they put a card in every round, one of their 4 comp cards is not included. That seems a bit harsh to me.

I don't tend to put GP cards in so I have no skin in this game. It just seems to go against what EG wants players to do.

If your club goes down that road then people will reach a point in the year where they stop putting cards in so they are not penalised.

 

[wjemather]

But we are looking at changes to make it 4 in your last 20 scores or 6 in the last 12 months

This would not be an acceptable condition as it places a restriction on the submission of General Play scores, e.g. a player with 4/20 competition scores wouldn't be able to submit another GP score if a competition score was the oldest of the most recent 20.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

4 in your last 20 penalises those who enter GP cards. They may have 4 comp cards in the last 12 months but because they put a card in every round, one of their 4 comp cards is not included. That seems a bit harsh to me.

I don't tend to put GP cards in so I have no skin in this game. It just seems to go against what EG wants players to do.

If your club goes down that road then people will reach a point in the year where they stop putting cards in so they are not penalised.

It’s one of the options being looked at and it is something that members have asked us to look at

What EG wants players to do imo shouldn’t matter at the end of the day , it should be down to the club how they administer their comps for the benefit of their members

Maybe one day EG might listen to members of clubs but doubtful


But it’s a well trodden path

 

[Arthur Wedge]

This would not be an acceptable condition as it places a restriction on the submission of General Play scores, e.g. a player with 4/20 competition scores wouldn't be able to submit another GP score if a competition score was the oldest of the most recent 20.

So the player then wouldn’t be able to throw in some GP scores to manipulate the HC with a comp coming up - sounds good to me

 

[wjemather]

So the player then wouldn’t be able to throw in some GP scores to manipulate the HC with a comp coming up - sounds good to me

It's extremely naive of you to think (or, as seems more likely given your apparent experience, disingenuous of you to claim) requiring 4/20 to be comp scores would prevent (or even hinder) such activity.
The reality is that such conditions are counter-productive (to the presumed goal of ensuring the competition is fair), and result in fewer HIs that fairly reflect the players' ability.

But we've been round this subject countless times in countless other threads, so lets not send this thread off on a tangent by revisiting it again.

 

[jim8flog]

We don’t have opens but looking to create a seniors one

We have invitational day and you can be an Igolf member to play in it

Our Open will look to have the same level of entry criteria as a club board comp

4 scores from competitions in the last 12 months rolling

But we are looking at changes to make it 4 in your last 20 scores or 6 in the last 12 months

When I see entry conditions like this it makes me glad I have stopped bothering with Opens.

I put in around 40 cards a year with the majority coming from GP cards submitted when playing in swindles.

My last 20 scores all come from August onwards so my H.I. reflects my current ability, part of what the WHS is all about.

 

[KenL]

Because it is some thing I would not bother checking

How helpful, thanks.

 

[jim8flog]

How helpful, thanks.

I merely answered your question

 

[simsini]

You have to be a member of an affiliated golf club to enter opens at our club. No iGolf members are allowed to enter.

 

[LincolnShep]

I play 20+ opens every year. I've seen some clubs staging "iGolf Opens" specifically aimed at converting iGolf players into a members. Others clubs go the opposite way and state in their T&Cs that iGolf handicaps are not acceptable. I guess this is because there is little or no scrutiny of iGolf handicaps so they are even easier to manipulate than club handicaps.
Personally, I'd encourage open organisers (and club comp organisers for that matter) to reduce or remove the prizes on offer. The incentive for handicap manipulation would be drastically reduced. There will always be arseh*les who want to fiddle their handicaps but they must weigh up the risk against the potential rewards - remove the rewards and the risk won't be worth it.

 

[simsini]

I play 20+ opens every year. I've seen some clubs staging "iGolf Opens" specifically aimed at converting iGolf players into a members. Others clubs go the opposite way and state in their T&Cs that iGolf handicaps are not acceptable. I guess this is because there is little or no scrutiny of iGolf handicaps so they are even easier to manipulate than club handicaps.
Personally, I'd encourage open organisers (and club comp organisers for that matter) to reduce or remove the prizes on offer. The incentive for handicap manipulation would be drastically reduced. There will always be arseh*les who want to fiddle their handicaps but they must weigh up the risk against the potential rewards - remove the rewards and the risk won't be worth it.

Would agree with this. I play opens as a chance to play different courses for less than a green fee would cost. If I happen to win a prize, that's great, but it's not the reason I play in them. Maybe reduced prizes combined with lower entry fees to compensate?