Roll Up Group Handicaps

[rulefan]

I don't quite understand how submitting 20 cards with scores higher than my usual competition scores doesn't increase my HI.

Why are these scores higher than your usual competition scores?

 

[wjemather]

Wrong. And you conveniently missed the bit about all 20 counting scores being fun rounds that aren't taken seriously.

Like I said, you can't see the flaws in WHS so it's pointless us debating this any further.

For most amateur golfers, all rounds of golf are fun rounds that aren't taken too seriously - it's our hobby, not our job.

You appear to be elevating your competitions (and your handicap) to a status they really don't warrant, at the cost of your enjoyment - and you're not alone in that. It's a shame.

 

[Crow]

There is a clear difference between having pre-existing rules that mean scores not acceptable, and introducing such rules with the express intention of making scores not acceptable.

But is it illegal to do so?
And if so, what is the penalty?

 

[Slab]

There are also many different levels of official competition, but no-one seems to be suggesting they be treated differently from each other.

1. a General Play round
2. a regular informal rollup competition meeting the requirements for an acceptable score
3. an official club Stableford competition
4. a 36-hole medal for the club championship
5. a 72-hole medal with a cut for the county or national championship
6. The Open Championship

3 has far more in common with 1 than is does 5 or 6; there is less difference between 2 and 3 than there is 3 and 4 or 5; and all are treated the same for handicapping.

Well 5&6 just aren't a thing for most club golfers. 4 is barely on the radar so for most it'll be 3 kinds and 2 is as close to 1 as it is to 3

So while we do need a 'catch all' process/system that applies I don't think its beyond consideration to make rounds in 1&2 with different parameters to 5&6 ?

 

[rulefan]

Arthur Wedge

Are your rollup scores primarily individual scores combined to form a team or sides score? If so, is the team the players who actually play in the same group?

 

[3 jabber]

Why are these scores higher than your usual competition scores?

Have you not followed this thread? People try shots they wouldn't take on in competitions because it isn't serious. If they don't come off they drop shots.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

There is a clear difference between having pre-existing rules that mean scores not acceptable, and introducing such rules with the express intention of making scores not acceptable.

Is there really ? Can’t see the issue myself if people want to keep their social golf relaxed and fun and don’t want to have the stress ( and yes people do find it stressful ) of putting cards jn

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Are your rollup scores primarily individual scores combined to form a team or sides score? If so, is the team the players who actually play in the same group?

Our swindle scores are individual and combined as well as a 4bbb matchplay between the group

 

[HomerJSimpson]

When playing social golf in their swindle that exactly what we do

and of course there are rules that allow both

So you aren't playing to the rules of golf. Remind me to get a list of which rules we aren't applying next time we play. I can't believe this is still being debated when it is so clear and abvious what clubs and WHS are requesting

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So you aren't playing to the rules of golf. Remind me to get a list of which rules we aren't applying next time we play. I can't believe this is still being debated when it is so clear and abvious what clubs and WHS are requesting

As it’s our fun social golf what is the issue ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

As it’s our fun social golf what is the issue ?

Because it is cheating. Fun or not the rules of golf are there to be observed or where do you draw the line on what is acceptable to ignore

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Because it is cheating. Fun or not the rules of golf are there to be observed or where do you draw the line on what is acceptable to ignore

Cheating ?!

Cheating who exactly when we all play the same way in our swindle

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Cheating ?!

Cheating who exactly when we all play the same way in our swindle

Sorry I'm out. Lost any respect for anyone that chooses to ignore the rules of golf under the flag "fun". The rules are there for everyone and its possible to adhere to them and enjoy golf. I feel sorry for you and your group having to play to your own made up version of golf to have fun. I'll carry on playing to the rules and submitting cards as required. That way I know my handicap is reflective and played within the rules and spirit of the game

 

[Starter]

So no different than any previous handicap system, but the suggestion is that you had no problem with them?

Also, it's not a matter of "satisfying WHS" - what a bizarre notion that is. You might simply want to consider submitting scores to ensure that when you do play in rollups, you are doing so fairly? You know, get an accurate handicap so that you are not putting yourself at a disadvantage, or worse disadvantaging those you are playing with?

I couldn't give a stiff if I am putting myself at a disadvantage.

What's more the others in the group are equally unbothered. Our collective view is that it is nothing to do with anyone else.

As for previous systems, having played for well over 50 years I cannot recall there ever being an expectation of cards being submitted other than in comps.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Sorry I'm out. Lost any respect for anyone that chooses to ignore the rules of golf under the flag "fun". The rules are there for everyone and its possible to adhere to them and enjoy golf. I feel sorry for you and your group having to play to your own made up version of golf to have fun. I'll carry on playing to the rules and submitting cards as required. That way I know my handicap is reflective and played within the rules and spirit of the game

So every single time you have played golf you have played to every single rule of golf

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So every single time you have played golf you have played to every single rule of golf

Within my knowledge and should a PP pick up a mistake and be able to verify it in the rule book I'll take the penalty and learn. One harsh lesson I learned very early was not to play the course before a stroke play event especially when you walk it later. I've been pinged for rules I wasn't aware of in club matches. I am not infallable. I also take responsibility for trying to ensure higher handicappers and new golfers are playing correctly. Why wouldn't I as I am putting a card in.

I can't believe you are still arguing the toss. There have been people posting on other threads that you suck and logic or points of discussion out and I can see what they mean. You seem determined to argue against evidence other forum members have presented and their advice and to find a way to justify not adhering to the rules of golf which I think goes against the whole ethos of the game

I am not getting sucked into another game of tit for tat posting. You carry on ignoring WHS advice and cheating in the roll ups. I am done

 

[Slab]

Because it is cheating. Fun or not the rules of golf are there to be observed or where do you draw the line on what is acceptable to ignore

Maybe take a pause/re-read. The scenario being discussed is hardly what we'd typically describe as 'cheating'

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Within my knowledge and should a PP pick up a mistake and be able to verify it in the rule book I'll take the penalty and learn. One harsh lesson I learned very early was not to play the course before a stroke play event especially when you walk it later. I've been pinged for rules I wasn't aware of in club matches. I am not infallable. I also take responsibility for trying to ensure higher handicappers and new golfers are playing correctly. Why wouldn't I as I am putting a card in.

I can't believe you are still arguing the toss. There have been people posting on other threads that you suck and logic or points of discussion out and I can see what they mean. You seem determined to argue against evidence other forum members have presented and their advice and to find a way to justify not adhering to the rules of golf which I think goes against the whole ethos of the game

I am not getting sucked into another game of tit for tat posting. You carry on ignoring WHS advice and cheating in the roll ups. I am done

That’s twice now you have thrown an accusation of cheating

As per normal you have burst into a thread singled out a post without even looking at any context

We are not “cheating” in our swindle if we decide to

Allows putts to be gimmies within a putting grip length

If we allow people to remove the ball from a root

If we allow pick and place anywhere

If we allow people to take a drop from OB

It’s our swindle and we will work to how we want

No one is cheating anyone

Read what’s been posted and try and understand

This is a bunch of people playing social fun golf their way

If someone wants to put a score card in then they follow the rules of golf it is very simple

Don’t ever accuse people of cheating

 

[HomerJSimpson]

That’s twice now you have thrown an accusation of cheating

As per normal you have burst into a thread singled out a post without even looking at any context

We are not “cheating” in our swindle if we decide to

Allows putts to be gimmies within a putting grip length

If we allow people to remove the ball from a root

If we allow pick and place anywhere

If we allow people to take a drop from OB

It’s our swindle and we will work to how we want

No one is cheating anyone

Read what’s been posted and try and understand

This is a bunch of people playing social fun golf their way

If someone wants to put a score card in then they follow the rules of golf it is very simple

Don’t ever accuse people of cheating

You aren't playing to the rules of golf. It is black and white. We have loads of roll ups including our coffin dodgers and they all play to the rules

 

[3 jabber]

Because it is cheating. Fun or not the rules of golf are there to be observed or where do you draw the line on what is acceptable to ignore

You draw the line when you decide the format you are playing. Social or competition.