Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Not at my club.
Most had learned from experience that 36 points off whites meant a cut and it took 38 points off yellows to get a cut.
Who is delusional, me, you or "them"?
Alterations to WHS?
- Thread starter Captain_Black.
- Start date
Most had learned from experience that 36 points off whites meant a cut and it took 38 points off yellows to get a cut.
Who is delusional, me, you or "them"?
2blue
Journeyman Pro
Nor mine as we've been having mixed tee Comps for some time. Red, Yellow (+2 shots) Whites (+5) .... all 'against' the Red tee
Has brought a complication in Stablefords when no one plays off reds so that when folk submit their scores they're a few points short of what they expect.
Under UTS our course gave us 'soft' H/caps that were exposed when visiting more difficult neighbors. So we've found WHS to be an incredible equalizer .... the best thing that ever happened in handicapping. Now looking forward to the first winter playing full Q Comps off the measured Red course. Mind you I'm sick of hearing some folk bleating that they'll struggle playing to their 'Summer' H/cap.... also sick of the vacant looks when you suggest, 'Just put more cards in to lose those Summer scores'. You just can't help some of the Dinosaurs.
wjemather
Well-known member
Most players measure themselves against (nett) par. You are delusional if you think "Everyone understood that 35 points from whites and 37 points from yellows was playing to handicap".
I see you are now rowing back to "most had learned..." Keep going and you may approach reality.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
My apologies for not thinking carefully enough about my choice of "everyone" in my post. I'm sure there must have been exceptions, but perhaps they were insignificant enough in my mind earlier today, for me to ignore them.
For clarity, I did change this to "most" after more careful consideration of accuracy in my choice of words.
I do not believe I am delusional, but have reported what I witnessed was a generally and widely held view and perception at my club that existed for several years.
I take great exception to your persistence in describing me as delusional.
I believe I have reported my observations in a reasonable way and have not misguided anyone from the truth of the views held at my club over a few decades.
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Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
In the early 1990s at my club, there were only two comps that were stablefords and over 20 that were medals.
Stablefords had mixed views on its validity. Many did not like the 7/8 or later 90% allowance that meant "losing a shot" when lower handicap players did not "lose a shot."
Some lower handicap players thought it a nonsense to ignore bad shots that were played and not count them.
The vast majority of perceptions about "playing to handicap" were formed and based on medal play and not stableford play.
By 2000 and later, stablefords became more popular, but the understanding of "playing to handicap" did not change significantly from nett score against standard scratch.
That is how I can explain why I posted that everyone understood that 35 points off whites and 37 points off yellows was "playing to handicap" even though I was at fault with "everyone" when there might well have been exceptions to this.
I apologise to the forum, if this has misled anyone in any way. That was not my intention.
Stablefords had mixed views on its validity. Many did not like the 7/8 or later 90% allowance that meant "losing a shot" when lower handicap players did not "lose a shot."
Some lower handicap players thought it a nonsense to ignore bad shots that were played and not count them.
The vast majority of perceptions about "playing to handicap" were formed and based on medal play and not stableford play.
By 2000 and later, stablefords became more popular, but the understanding of "playing to handicap" did not change significantly from nett score against standard scratch.
That is how I can explain why I posted that everyone understood that 35 points off whites and 37 points off yellows was "playing to handicap" even though I was at fault with "everyone" when there might well have been exceptions to this.
I apologise to the forum, if this has misled anyone in any way. That was not my intention.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Not misled me Coz I got the jest of what you were saying. But as someone mentioned, I think the
“ extra” shots is something worth discussing.
As has also been mentioned the changes to WHS are straightforward. What muddies the waters is extra shots.
“ extra” shots is something worth discussing.
As has also been mentioned the changes to WHS are straightforward. What muddies the waters is extra shots.
D-S
Well-known member
If another player is playing off tees 500 yards shorter than the tees you are playing off how would you compensate for the difference?
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
I thought all that was sorted under WHS course ratings.
Alan Clifford
Well-known member
Not in england. Oh wait, it is if you play 9 holes.
D-S
Well-known member
It is - the balancing shots are how WHS make it fair.
rulefan
Tour Winner
6.2b(i)
(i) Stroke Play and Match Play formats (where results are recorded as gross or
net scores).
- For an 18-hole round: ..............................
Alan Clifford
Well-known member
Yeah, but it's a secondary calculation.
No wait, it's WHS, it's probably the 5th or 6th calculation
rulefan
Tour Winner
As it was under CONGU.
APPENDIX O
EVENTS IN WHICH COMPETITORS PLAY FROM DIFFERENT SETS OF TEES
cliveb
Head Pro
I well remember at my previous club where SSS was 2 less than par, knowing that when you stood on the 1st tee you were 2 over before even hitting your first shot. Most of the members understood this.
Banchory Buddha
Well-known member
But the reason for handicaps travelling badly was bad course ratings, that hasn't changed under WHS (except you now see the decimal point whereas before is was rounded)
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I am most certainly aware of this when playing off the yellows at my place with a card in hand. With CR two under par but with me same PH as whites, I am never particular enthralled with the idea that I have to play to two under my PH to post a roughly equivalent differential to playing to PH off whites. Just had big HI cut so find myself with CH of 8. That’s not that easy for me. Playing to 6 I find difficult so avoid yellows with card in hand where I can.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
Our club management announced last week that it will be changing from an 18 hole course to a 9 hole....each hole will have four tees....I just hope they rate every tee for both genders when the time comes....then we can have true mixed tee comps as well as the mixed gender comps we already hold. Our ladies have been well versed in knowing that they get an extra shot due to the differences in SSS (as it was) or CR (as it is now) for many years....will be something to educate the male membership in when the time comes.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The course rating system was changed pretty dramatically just before WHS was introduced. The major but not the only change was the introduction of bogey rating. This had a significant effect on cat 2 and above players.
wjemather
Well-known member
The main reason for handicaps not travelling well was not using Slope; the difference between CR & SSS because of rounding was insignificant in comparison.
What makes you think the ratings are "bad"?
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Banchory Buddha
Well-known member
You're meaning slope right? Course ratings haven't changed, my home course hasn't been re-rated since 2012
