WHS and club completions

[Springveldt]

Just received an email from my club stating that starting next April you will not be eligible for any prizes in club competitions if you have more than 5 general play scores in your last 20. They say that others clubs and open competitions will be adopting this rule if they don't already.

So, are there any clubs out there just now that are doing this? It won't affect me as most of my scores are in comps anyway but doesn't this go against the spirit of WHS of putting a card in most times you play?

 

[Backache]

Just received an email from my club stating that starting next April you will not be eligible for any prizes in club competitions if you have more than 5 general play scores in your last 20. They say that others clubs and open competitions will be adopting this rule if they don't already.

So, are there any clubs out there just now that are doing this? It won't affect me as most of my scores are in comps anyway but doesn't this go against the spirit of WHS of putting a card in most times you play?

WHS needs a serious revamp. I totally sympathise with the clubs doing it but it is completely at odds with the original idea of WHS.

Personally I think there should be a two handicapping system one that can be used for social golf which can use General Play scores and one for competitions when they should be limited.

 

[Wabinez]

Some county and elite level events have stated you can’t have any general play cards in your last 20, or the difference between the competition and GP cards can’t be greater than ‘x’ amount.

Bit of a joke.

Some clubs are doing an entry criteria of having to have a certain number of competitions in the last 12 months. Having no GP cards in your 20 is a joke though. And no amount of arguing will convince me otherwise

Sure there are some frauds out there, but some of us like to go to different courses and put cards in

 

[Neilds]

To enter Board Competitions we have to have at least 8 cards in the 12 months preceding the competition, at least 3 of which must be 18 hole competition cards. NRs and DQs do not count.
I think to limit the amount of GP cards is wrong as this is not how the handicap system is meant to work.

 

[abjectplop]

To enter Board Competitions we have to have at least 8 cards in the 12 months preceding the competition, at least 3 of which must be 18 hole competition cards. NRs and DQs do not count.
I think to limit the amount of GP cards is wrong as this is not how the handicap system is meant to work.

What's the club's rationale for NRs being excluded? Someone could have an unexpected lost ball on one hole which will go down as net double bogey.

 

[Neilds]

What's the club's s rationale for NRs being excluded? Someone could have an unexpected lost ball on one hole which will go down as net double bogey.

No idea, might be part of the drive to try and stop NRs for vanity handicaps?

 

[wjemather]

Just received an email from my club stating that starting next April you will not be eligible for any prizes in club competitions if you have more than 5 general play scores in your last 20. They say that others clubs and open competitions will be adopting this rule if they don't already.

So, are there any clubs out there just now that are doing this? It won't affect me as most of my scores are in comps anyway but doesn't this go against the spirit of WHS of putting a card in most times you play?

Absolutely appalling policy founded in ignorance and justified by a bare-faced lie.

And yes, contrary to just about everything handicapping is about.

 

[Orikoru]

Just received an email from my club stating that starting next April you will not be eligible for any prizes in club competitions if you have more than 5 general play scores in your last 20. They say that others clubs and open competitions will be adopting this rule if they don't already.

So, are there any clubs out there just now that are doing this? It won't affect me as most of my scores are in comps anyway but doesn't this go against the spirit of WHS of putting a card in most times you play?

Yeah.. I've literally just started putting all cards in since around the start of June, so if my club suddenly decides I can't play competitions I will be fuming.

Introducing this as a rule is pretty clear cut way of saying your club doesn't trust or back the WHS.

 

[wjemather]

To enter Board Competitions we have to have at least 8 cards in the 12 months preceding the competition, at least 3 of which must be 18 hole competition cards. NRs and DQs do not count.

Nice arbitrary numbers!! Any idea how they were arrived at?

If the handicap committee is doing their job properly, there is no such thing as an NR (i.e. 18 x NR holes, or no scores returned after an NR hole) because such scores are not acceptable.
I assume of course that they are not excluding scores where players have rightly picked up when they can no longer score and just have a few NR holes, because that would be utterly ridiculous.

There is also no justification for excluding DQ scores that are acceptable for handicapping per the rules.

 

[Orikoru]

To enter Board Competitions we have to have at least 8 cards in the 12 months preceding the competition, at least 3 of which must be 18 hole competition cards. NRs and DQs do not count.
I think to limit the amount of GP cards is wrong as this is not how the handicap system is meant to work.

My club has a similar rule. "To win a major/board competition a competitor must have eight qualifying scores on their handicap record in the previous year, at least four of which must be competition cards."

I don't know if that also means that four comp rounds must be in your most recent 20, or just having played four comp rounds in the last year is fine.

 

[Imurg]

There's a massive assumption that people are able to play 15 comps in a certain amount of time..
We're not a competition heavy club...a quick scan of the diary shows about 30 for so Men's comps from April to March.
It would be virtually impossible for most to qualify under those rules due to availability, age or handicap restrictions. Competition golf would cease....I'd certainly stop playing them.
There is so much more to golf than playing competitions

 

[clubchamp98]

No idea, might be part of the drive to try and stop NRs for vanity handicaps?

We were talking about this at the weekend.
The amount of NRs were getting has almost trebled since WHS.
Might be the lack of a buffer zone.
Or you know your score isn’t going to count if it’s already poor early in the round and your not losing one of your eight.


Guy said “Scotland were thinking of going back to the old system”
But didn’t say what the source was even when asked?

 

[Neilds]

Nice arbitrary numbers!! Any idea how they were arrived at?

If the handicap committee is doing their job properly, there is no such thing as an NR (i.e. 18 x NR holes, or no scores returned after an NR hole) because such scores are not acceptable.
I assume of course that they are not excluding scores where players have rightly picked up when they can no longer score and just have a few NR holes, because that would be utterly ridiculous.

There is also no justification for excluding DQ scores that are acceptable for handicapping per the rules.

All the scores will be used for handicap purposes, they just won't count as part of your 3 competition cards. Don't know why, don't care as I have only NR'd once (last time out after 14 1/2 holes with sore back) and we have enough non-board competitions for everyone to get at 3 in a rolling 12 months.

 

[Backache]

I will quite regularly NR if I lose a ball. To go back and play another shot delaying everyone is the height of bad manners and rather disgustingly selfish behaviour.
Obviously I play a provisional if I think a lost ball is likely but not every bad bounce can be anticipated and with the summer rough up you don't need to be far off line to lose a ball.

 

[wjemather]

Some county and elite level events have stated you can’t have any general play cards in your last 20, or the difference between the competition and GP cards can’t be greater than ‘x’ amount.

I don't agree with zero GP scores and I'm happy to say that I haven't seen any with this stipulation.
However, there is very good reason for looking at the difference between comp and GP differentials for elite events because there is a very small number of players holding their HI low to get into these events by cherry-picking GP score submissions without proper oversight from their handicap committee. I've seen at least 3 such players in the scratch opens I've entered/played this year - the most brazen of whom even had the nerve to enter qualifying for the big amateur champs and The Open.

 

[D-S]

Just received an email from my club stating that starting next April you will not be eligible for any prizes in club competitions if you have more than 5 general play scores in your last 20. They say that others clubs and open competitions will be adopting this rule if they don't already.

So, are there any clubs out there just now that are doing this? It won't affect me as most of my scores are in comps anyway but doesn't this go against the spirit of WHS of putting a card in most times you play?

I’ve never heard of a club doing anything like this. More clubs are insisting on a certain number of competition rounds in the last 12 months but the most I know of is 5 and I assume that if these are not part of your last 20 they wouldn’t object.
I would guess if this was brought to EG’s attention or the County, a quiet word might be had.

 

[IanM]

By cherry-picking GP score submissions without proper oversight from their handicap committee.

That's the reason for some places getting the jitters! (For both high and low handicappers)

I've seen several Opens this year where there was a stipulation about proportion of competition cards required. Our club does similar, but I cant remember the proportion as not effected by it

Classic case of a decent idea enabling marginal behaviour and then there's rapid "shutting stable doors!!"

It's the VAR of golf!

 

[wjemather]

There's a massive assumption that people are able to play 15 comps in a certain amount of time..
We're not a competition heavy club...a quick scan of the diary shows about 30 for so Men's comps from April to March.
It would be virtually impossible for most to qualify under those rules due to availability, age or handicap restrictions. Competition golf would cease....I'd certainly stop playing them.
There is so much more to golf than playing competitions

Absolutely. The number of team matches and knockouts there are makes playing in significant number of club comps difficult even if (like me) you are able to play most weekends and there is a comp every Saturday and Sunday - I always enter our club comps and it seems I have only managed to play 4 since April due to other golf.

 

[IanM]

Additional thought... the OPs club's stipulation is an odd one too.

Regardless of how many GP scores you have in your last 20.... "What if all 8 counting are club comps??"

 

[Springveldt]

I’ve never heard of a club doing anything like this. More clubs are insisting on a certain number of competition rounds in the last 12 months but the most I know of is 5 and I assume that if these are not part of your last 20 they wouldn’t object.
I would guess if this was brought to EG’s attention or the County, a quiet word might be had.

Absolutely appalling policy founded in ignorance and justified by a bare-faced lie.

And yes, contrary to just about everything handicapping is about.

Someone at the club seems to think this is the proper procedure as the email states that it's in line with guidance from both England Golf and county officials.

There doesn't appear to be a time limit and it doesn't state anything about counting scores so it seemed a bit bizarre to me even although I'm not affected by it.