Setting fair limits for knockout competitions

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Using HI to set limits for competitions is advised by England Golf.

My club has singles knockouts with a hard limit to enter of HI 21.0 and always played off the same competition tee. Any member with 21.1 to 21.4 HI is not eligible to enter even though they would have the same Playing Handicap as someone of HI 21.0?

I may have missed it but, cannot see any advice on this from the authorities, as it is clearly unfair and against the purpose and spirit of the WHS.

Setting limits firstly to Playing Handicaps and then converting back to the last decimal point of the appropriate unrounded CH (in this case HI 21.4) has to be the way to do it, and should be advised.

 

[jim8flog]

Has the club changed the rules to allow for the changes in handicap calculations that came in this year. If not may be you could suggest it.
Clubs have always been able to set handicap limits for comps.

The only advice I know of is

G7.2a Permitting Players to Play From a Lower Handicap Than Their Entitlement When a Handicap Limit on Entry is in Place
Though contrary to the spirit of handicapping and not recommended, this practice is permitted. However, the full Course Handicap must be used for handicapping purposes and the restricted handicap is simply for competition result purposes. If handicap divisions are being used for prize purposes, these divisions, categories or sections must be set and made available to all competitors before play.

 

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The limits have been set for the new changes in April 1st and do not allow members to enter over this limit. Also nothing to do wiith adjusting your HI after.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

We have a number of individual knockouts with various restricions.

Male individual scratch, up to 30 HI, any HI
Male greensomes and pairs better ball.
Ladies
Seniors
Juniors
Mixed pairs

All but one are open to any HI.

Placing a limit on HI is no different in my mind to placing restrictions on entry by gender or age. Can't see a problem with it.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I've just entered a scratch knockout county-wide competition that has an age restriction and a HI restriction.

 

[wjemather]

Using HI to set limits for competitions is advised by England Golf.

My club has singles knockouts with a hard limit to enter of HI 21.0 and always played off the same competition tee. Any member with 21.1 to 21.4 HI is not eligible to enter even though they would have the same Playing Handicap as someone of HI 21.0?

I may have missed it but, cannot see any advice on this from the authorities, as it is clearly unfair and against the purpose and spirit of the WHS.

Setting limits firstly to Playing Handicaps and then converting back to the last decimal point of the appropriate unrounded CH (in this case HI 21.4) has to be the way to do it, and should be advised.

Everything you need is here: https://static.whsplatform.englandg...ng_handicap_limits_in_competitions_170123.pdf

 

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With due respect to these replies. My post is asking is there any advice, to make it clear to clubs, as there should be, that having the situation that some members can enter but others cannot, who have exactly the same playing handicaps, is not acceptable.

 

[wjemather]

With due respect to these replies. My post is asking is there any advice, to make it clear to clubs, as there should be, that having the situation that some members can enter but others cannot, who have exactly the same playing handicaps, is not acceptable.

Limits can be set using HI, CH or PH at the committee's discretion. The recommendation is to use HI, because this is the value every player should know. It makes sense for committees to set any HI limit at the upper boundary for Playing Handicaps, but it is not a requirement and it is not unacceptable to not do so.

 

[Voyager EMH]

With due respect to these replies. My post is asking is there any advice, to make it clear to clubs, as there should be, that having the situation that some members can enter but others cannot, who have exactly the same playing handicaps, is not acceptable.

As wjemather states, it is acceptable to have HI limits or restrictions as an entry requirement to club competitions.
These can be an upper limit and/or a lower limit.
At our club there is an "Intermediate Trophy" that has a lower and an upper HI limit.
The "Rabbits Bowl" has a lower limit.

 

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Limits can be set using HI, CH or PH at the committee's discretion. The recommendation is to use HI, because this is the value every player should know. It makes sense for committees to set any HI limit at the upper boundary for Playing Handicaps, but it is not a requirement and it is not unacceptable to not do so.

At last, someone who understands my post.

Surely, not setting HI limits to upper boundaries for Playing Handicaps can lead to treating some people differently that are equal to others and against the purpose of the WHS?

 

[rulefan]

With due respect to these replies. My post is asking is there any advice, to make it clear to clubs, as there should be, that having the situation that some members can enter but others cannot, who have exactly the same playing handicaps, is not acceptable.

HI is the one figure that players will always know. If they enter a competition played from different tees or on a different course to their own, they will have to go through the rigmarole of determining their CH or PH.
Knowing the appropriate Slope, CR & Par and ensuring they use 'machine precision' appropriately, will be a faff.

England Golf have made a strong recommendation.

Defining Handicap Limits in Competitions
• Option 2 - Set handicap entry limits:
Any limits must be clearly stated in the Terms of Competition upon entry. It is strongly recommended that the limit is set using the HI, because this is something which the player will know, or can easily find out.
Alternatively, a limit could be placed with reference to the maximum playing handicap; although the player would not intuitively know this in advance of play. It is acceptable, although not recommended that, whilst not limiting the handicap index eligible in the Terms of Competition, within those Terms a cap may be placed on the maximum playing handicap allowed. However, any handicap index calculations will be made using the player’s actual full handicap index/coursehandicap.

 

[wjemather]

At last, someone who understands my post.

Surely, not setting HI limits to upper boundaries for Playing Handicaps can lead to treating some people differently that are equal to others and against the purpose of the WHS?

But if one has a lower HI than the other, they are not equal, even if their PH would be the same.

 

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But if one has a lower HI than the other, they are not equal, even if their PH would be the same.

So, you think it is fair and equitable then to have some not able to enter a singles knockout even though they have the same Playing Handicap as others that can?

 

[wjemather]

So, you think it is fair and equitable then to have some not able to enter a singles knockout even though they have the same Playing Handicap as others that can?

Yes. It's really not much different from having a limit on the number of entries with a ballot based on HI.

 

[rosecott]

So, you think it is fair and equitable then to have some not able to enter a singles knockout even though they have the same Playing Handicap as others that can?

Surely it is up to your committee to recognise this and set the maximum HI for entry as the top end of the band of HIs that produce a Course Handicap of 21 for the tees to be used for the knockout matches - even if a figure of, say, 21.7 was this figure.

 

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Surely it is up to your committee to recognise this and set the maximum HI for entry as the top end of the band of HIs that produce a Course Handicap of 21 for the tees to be used for the knockout matches.

That is the problem, my committee don‘t recognise this and why I was asking if there was any guidance to follow that I could present to them.

 

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Yes. It's really not much different from having a limit on the number of entries with a ballot based on HI.

To be fair and equitable, in a ballot, I would still expect the HI limit to firstly be based on the upper boundaries of a PH based on the CH.

 

[wjemather]

To be fair and equitable, in a ballot, I would still expect the HI limit to firstly be based on the upper boundaries of a PH based on the CH.

HI is the measure of ability, not CH or PH.
It's perfectly fair and equitable to draw the line anywhere, irrespective of CH/PH on any given course/tee being the same immediately above and below that line.

 

[rulefan]

That is the problem, my committee don‘t recognise this and why I was asking if there was any guidance to follow that I could present to them.

1) EG have given guidance
2) PH only works for the specific course and tees.

 

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HI is the measure of ability, not CH or PH.
It's perfectly fair and equitable to draw the line anywhere, irrespective of CH/PH on any given course/tee being the same immediately above and below that line.

You say it makes sense, so if sensible, what is wrong with EG advising clubs to work out their HI limits that way?