Playing in Simultaneous Competitions

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mikejohnchapman

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I had always thought it was not possible to play in 2 competitions simultaneously - especially if one was strokeplay and one matchplay.

However, a member at our club sent a query to the R&A Rules website asking if was possible to play in a non-qualifying fun competition and a General Play round together and they answered that providing both were strokeplay events it was fine. The fun event (Stag and Hounds) was one of those strange winter events that involved someone playing the course before the others and her score on each hole effectively became the "new par" and then the hounds played a bogey competition against this new card.

To be clear the course length, rating and slope remained the same so the course was valid for handicap and the person playing the GP card played to the relevant rules, I was just surprised they thought this was valid.

They did say this was really England Golf's call and suggested they contact them for validation.

Is this common elsewhere and does it make any difference if both competitions are acceptable for handicap? I don't see how you could enter 2 scores for 1 round but I've decided anything now appears to be possible.
 

rulefan

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I had always thought it was not possible to play in 2 competitions simultaneously - especially if one was strokeplay and one matchplay.

However, a member at our club sent a query to the R&A Rules website asking if was possible to play in a non-qualifying fun competition and a General Play round together and they answered that providing both were strokeplay events it was fine. The fun event (Stag and Hounds) was one of those strange winter events that involved someone playing the course before the others and her score on each hole effectively became the "new par" and then the hounds played a bogey competition against this new card.

To be clear the course length, rating and slope remained the same so the course was valid for handicap and the person playing the GP card played to the relevant rules, I was just surprised they thought this was valid.

They did say this was really England Golf's call and suggested they contact them for validation.

Is this common elsewhere and does it make any difference if both competitions are acceptable for handicap? I don't see how you could enter 2 scores for 1 round but I've decided anything now appears to be possible.
Remember Competitions and Handicap rounds are not quite the same thing. You can play one round and have different prize winning qualifications. eg best stableford score and best gross score. But that would only be one WHS handicapping score.

Your example above would seem to satisfy those conditions providing the RoG are adhered to.
WHS is not interested in the "new par" except in Scotland. If mixed tees are in use 6.2b(iii) may be significant in determining prize competition Playing Handicap. I haven't tried to get my mind round that.
 

saving_par

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I find it weird that someone is obsessed to the extent they want to play in a 'fun' comp and put in a score for handicap at the same time.

Either that or they have been brainwashed by WHS that non submission of a score for any round of golf is a punishable offence 😃
 

Colin L

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Remember Competitions and Handicap rounds are not quite the same thing. You can play one round and have different prize winning qualifications. eg best stableford score and best gross score. But that would only be one WHS handicapping score.

Your example above would seem to satisfy those conditions providing the RoG are adhered to.
WHS is not interested in the "new par" except in Scotland. If mixed tees are in use 6.2b(iii) may be significant in determining prize competition Playing Handicap. I haven't tried to get my mind round that.

???
 

rulefan

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I assume it refers to where The OP said the Stag who played the course first set a "new par" against which a bogey comp was played
Louise
It does and that par (old or new) does not affect the Score Differential.

Colin
Please remind me. In Scotland does PH CH involve the CR-par adjustment in 6.1a?
 
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rulie

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For handicapping purposes, it only matters that the round was played on a measured/rated course and by the Rules of golf. Why does par matter?
 
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mikejohnchapman

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How does that impact whether or not a score can be used as part of a handicap record?
What am I missing?
You are right that the competition was played against the modified par from the Stag's round and was won with 71 points! (I'm not sure the Stag had a good round). This would not normally involve returning a score as it was non-qualifying. The question was whether someone could mark a general play score in parallel which would count towards handicap.

Thus par (new or existing) is irrelevant as the general play round was played as medal.
 

Colin L

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Louise
It does and that par (old or new) does not affect the Score Differential.

Colin
Please remind me. In Scotland does PH involve the CR-par adjustment in 6.1a?
Sorry, but I'm not with you. What CR-Par adjustment is there in 6.1a - apart from for an 18 hole course made up of the same two 9s?
 
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Oscar Cox

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I had always thought it was not possible to play in 2 competitions simultaneously - especially if one was strokeplay and one matchplay.

You can do pretty much what you like in matchplay by mutual agreement. I can't see any objection to using strokeplay competition scores to decide a parallel matchplay contest, as long as the players comply with the strokeplay rules (no gimmes for example). Their tactical decision-making in relation to strokeplay may occasionally be influenced/distorted by the match situation, but that's their lookout.
 

rulefan

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Sorry, but I'm not with you. What CR-Par adjustment is there in 6.1a - apart from for an 18 hole course made up of the same two 9s?
Sorry Colin, I was mixing up the RoW formula for CH which is HI x SR/113 + (Cr - Par) and the (unconnected) rounding that takes place somewhere along the way to PH.
My excuse is that I have been away for a few days in the Lakes and the inevitable but v enjoyable over indulgence has taken its toll on the little grey cells.
 

3offTheTee

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I know it has been asked before but cannot find it. Am I allowed to submit a Medal Stableford score for handicap purposes AND at the same time have a Matchplay game please? I seem to recall it has to be determined beforehand which rules set precedence
 

rulie

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I know it has been asked before but cannot find it. Am I allowed to submit a Medal Stableford score for handicap purposes AND at the same time have a Matchplay game please? I seem to recall it has to be determined beforehand which rules set precedence
From Committee Procedures, Section 6C
(12) Combining Match Play and Stroke Play

The combining of match play and stroke play is discouraged as certain Rules are substantially different between the two formats. But there will be times when players either request to combine the two forms of play or, having done so on their own, request a ruling. The Committee should make its best efforts to support players at these times and should use the following guidelines in doing so.

When players request to combine match play and stroke play

If a Committee chooses to allow players to play a match while competing in a stroke-play competition, it is recommended that the players be advised that the Rules for stroke play apply throughout. For example, no concessions are allowed and if one player plays out of turn, the other does not have the option of recalling the stroke.

When players request a ruling having combined match play and stroke play

If the Committee is asked for a ruling when players have combined match play and stroke play, it should apply the Rules of Golf as they would apply to each of match play and stroke play separately. For example, if one player did not complete a hole for whatever reason then he or she is disqualified from the stroke-play competition for a breach of Rule 3.3c. But, for Stableford, Maximum Score and Par/Bogey see Rules 21.1c(2), 21.2c and 21.3c(2) respectively.
 
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mikejohnchapman

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Is there a definitive statement in the WHS or CONGU handicapping rules saying you can't play 2 strokeplay competitions simultaneously?

Logic dictates you can't have 2 scores from one round but I can't find it specified.
 

rulie

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Is there a definitive statement in the WHS or CONGU handicapping rules saying you can't play 2 strokeplay competitions simultaneously?

Logic dictates you can't have 2 scores from one round but I can't find it specified.
As far as I can understand, you only have one score, but that one score is used for two competitions. Only that one score will be used for handicap purposes, surely the committee(s) can figure that out!
 

Banchory Buddha

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Is there a definitive statement in the WHS or CONGU handicapping rules saying you can't play 2 strokeplay competitions simultaneously?

Logic dictates you can't have 2 scores from one round but I can't find it specified.
A strokeplay round can count for more than one thing in the same round. For example a round of the monthly medals which is also a qualifier for something else
 

rulefan

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A strokeplay round can count for more than one thing in the same round. For example a round of the monthly medals which is also a qualifier for something else
mjc
That is for two competitions but only one qualifying handicap round.
Remember WHS is primarily concerned with handicap rounds. Competitions are the prerogative of the committee or club.
Another example is a weekly/monthly medal round also counting in the annual eclectic.
 
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The fun event (Stag and Hounds) was one of those strange winter events that involved someone playing the course before the others and her score on each hole effectively became the "new par" and then the hounds played a bogey competition against this new card.

I have to find a series of 'fun' golf competitions and this caught my eye. I realise it's off topic but as your original question has been answered would you be able to expand a bit on how "Stag and Hounds" worked. Was it just one single person setting the new par? I've looked online and can't find a similar competition Thanks
 
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