Setting fair limits for knockout competitions

[Swango1980]

Yes it is simple to give guidelines, not instructions. So why not do this? Then members can question a committee, knowing it is at the very least advised.

Probably because it is an issue that the authorites do not think is strong enough to provide any advice, and instead they are happy to allow Committees to set their own conditions?

 

[Swango1980]

Question to the OP, just out of interest:

Is your handicap index around 21.1 to 21.4?

 

[Length]

This sounds like fun. No one is going to agree to play from tees that give their opponent more shots.

I presume the OP is missing out by 0.something and is disgruntled? Would the irritation be the same if just inside the cutoff!

Unfortunately there has to be a cut off somewhere. So as I see it, the OP raises the issue at the next AGM to propose a change, sucks it up and gets on with life or gets their index down below the threshold.

You presume wrongly. Just sticking up for something I feel is wrong. If the cut off has to be somewhere what is wrong with to the fairer solution suggested? And getting the index below the threshold would do no good if already excluded would it?

 

[Length]

Question to the OP, just out of interest:

Is your handicap index around 21.1 to 21.4?

No it is 16.9, just sticking up for fairness.

 

[Swango1980]

No it is 16.9, just sticking up for fairness.

Personally, I don't see it as unfair.

However, maybe there is another solution? Our club runs summer knockout competitions, but it runs two. One trophy is for players with an index up to 15.0, the other for players with an index 15.1 and above

 

[Length]

Personally, I don't see it as unfair.

However, maybe there is another solution? Our club runs summer knockout competitions, but it runs two. One trophy is for players with an index up to 15.0, the other for players with an index 15.1 and above

Yes my club does this with 2 singles KOs, but still unfair. Work this one out. The low one is max to enter 14.9, 18CH only goes up to 14.6, so 19CH starts 14.7. The high one max entry 15.0, so players 14.7 to 14.9 are still 19CH cannot enter. You have CH19 in the lower one and some CH19 not allowed in the higher one.

 

[Length]

Personally, I don't see it as unfair.

However, maybe there is another solution? Our club runs summer knockout competitions, but it runs two. One trophy is for players with an index up to 15.0, the other for players with an index 15.1 and above

Are they singles and are the upper boundaries for PH/CH equal to the index limits?

 

[Swango1980]

Yes my club does this with 2 singles KOs, but still unfair. Work this one out. The low one is max to enter 14.9, 18CH only goes up to 14.6, so 19CH starts 14.7. The high one max entry 15.0, so players 14.7 to 14.9 are still 19CH cannot enter. You have CH19 in the lower one and some CH19 not allowed in the higher one.

So, you have the better 19 Course Handicappers in the better quality knockout, and the worse 19 Course Handicappers in the lower quality knockout? Seems ok to me. All players get to play in a knockout of some description.

And, add to this that handicaps are so much more volatile these days. After the competition I played on Saturday, mine jumped up 0.8 by the next day. So, one day you could make one limit, the next you could be nowhere near it. That's life.

 

[Swango1980]

Are they singles and are the upper boundaries for PH/CH equal to the index limits?

Singles.

15.0 has been the limit for years. In April, Course Handicaps changes a lot, with CR-Par added.

So, Pre WHS the Handicap was simply 15
Before April, CH would be 18.6 (so anyone 18.7 to 19.4 would be ineligible)
After April, CH would be 19.0 (so anyone 19.1 to 19.4 would be ineligible)

 

[Length]

So, you have the better 19 Course Handicappers in the better quality knockout, and the worse 19 Course Handicappers in the lower quality knockout? Seems ok to me. All players get to play in a knockout of some description.

And, add to this that handicaps are so much more volatile these days. After the competition I played on Saturday, mine jumped up 0.8 by the next day. So, one day you could make one limit, the next you could be nowhere near it. That's life.

But if you do it to the boundaries of CH/PH, as in my case, 14.6 max lower and 14.7 min higher, all players also get a game but on a fairer basis. And because as you say handicaps are volatile you can put your name down for both, if on a border handicap, and go into the relevant draw when it is done.

 

[Length]

Singles.

15.0 has been the limit for years. In April, Course Handicaps changes a lot, with CR-Par added.

So, Pre WHS the Handicap was simply 15
Before April, CH would be 18.6 (so anyone 18.7 to 19.4 would be ineligible)
After April, CH would be 19.0 (so anyone 19.1 to 19.4 would be ineligible)

Sorry not quite understanding, CH is rounded in singles

 

[rulefan]

Sorry not quite understanding, CH is rounded in singles

Which are you suggesting should be used, CH or PH?
Are you talking about Strokeplay or Match play?

Since 1 April CHs (& PHs) have changed. Should all entry requirements be changed?
If a course Slope changes, should all entry requirements be changed?

 

[Swango1980]

Sorry not quite understanding, CH is rounded in singles

It is. But, I put the decimals so you could see that the split set by the club does not lie on an integer course handicap.

So, for example, pre April, a 15.0 Index would give you a CH of 19 (the integer happens to be 18.6).

A 15.1 Index gives you CH of 19 also (the integer being 18.7).

However, the person with the 15.0 Index qualifies for the competition, the person with the 15.1 Index does not, despite both having a CH of 19.

My recommendation to the player with the 15.1 Index is to take a few lessons, try and improve, and see if they can get a cut.

 

[Length]

It is. But, I put the decimals so you could see that the split set by the club does not lie on an integer course handicap.

So, for example, pre April, a 15.0 Index would give you a CH of 19 (the integer happens to be 18.6).

A 15.1 Index gives you CH of 19 also (the integer being 18.7).

However, the person with the 15.0 Index qualifies for the competition, the person with the 15.1 Index does not, despite both having a CH of 19.

My recommendation to the player with the 15.1 Index is to take a few lessons, try and improve, and see if they can get a cut.

Then it is lucky we are all different then and sure many others agree and see it is not fair

 

[Swango1980]

Not sure you mentioned, but what is Course Rating, Slope and Par at your Course?

 

[Imurg]

Surely, no matter where you set the limit, there are going to be people who just get in and those who just miss out..?
That's life...

 

[rulefan]

It is. But, I put the decimals so you could see that the split set by the club does not lie on an integer course handicap.

So, for example, pre April, a 15.0 Index would give you a CH of 19 (the integer happens to be 18.6).

A 15.1 Index gives you CH of 19 also (the integer being 18.7).

However, the person with the 15.0 Index qualifies for the competition, the person with the 15.1 Index does not, despite both having a CH of 19.

My recommendation to the player with the 15.1 Index is to take a few lessons, try and improve, and see if they can get a cut.

An integer is a number that can be written without a fractional component. ie without the decimal

Then it is lucky we are all different then and sure many others agree and see it is not fair

How do you address the issues in post #52?

 

[Swango1980]

An integer is a number that can be written without a fractional component. ie without the decimal

How do you address the issues in post #52?

Yeah, I know.

But obviously, had I simply quoted the integer, there would be no information as to how the Index translated to a course handicap, and whereabouts it would be on the scale from going to one Course Handicap to another one higher.

So, in the context of this thread, I quoted the course handicap to a decimal, to highlight the fact that some people off 19 CH would qualify, others off 19 CH would not