WHS and club completions

Wabinez said:
I know for a fact Kent Golf Union would not allow anyone to enter the Kent Amateur Championship that had any general play cards in their last 20 scores.
A friend of mine was stopped from entering because he had a couple in his record.
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A fact you say, then why have I been able to find a number of this years entries who have GP scores in their 20 rounds preceeding the competition. As Rulefan says there is nothing in their ToC for this competition that would indicate that they were taking such a stance.
 
Wabinez said:
I know for a fact Kent Golf Union would not allow anyone to enter the Kent Amateur Championship that had any general play cards in their last 20 scores.
A friend of mine was stopped from entering because he had a couple in his record.
Click to expand...
Kent GU's ToC for their amateur championship closely mimicked EG's policy for elite competitions:

An entry may be refused if, in the opinion of the Championship Committee, a players Handicap Index is not reflective of their playing ability. This decision may be based on but is not limited to:
(a) a handicap record (most recent 20 scores) that contains more than 4 (four) General Play scores,
(b) a handicap record (most recent 20 scores) that contains less than 4 (four) Competition Scores, or
(c) an incomplete handicap record where fewer than 20 scores have been returned.

It certainly did not prohibit any entrant, including your friend, from having GP scores in their most recent 20.
 
wjemather said:
Kent GU's ToC for their amateur championship closely mimicked EG's policy for elite competitions:

An entry may be refused if, in the opinion of the Championship Committee, a players Handicap Index is not reflective of their playing ability. This decision may be based on but is not limited to:
(a) a handicap record (most recent 20 scores) that contains more than 4 (four) General Play scores,
(b) a handicap record (most recent 20 scores) that contains less than 4 (four) Competition Scores, or
(c) an incomplete handicap record where fewer than 20 scores have been returned.

It certainly did not prohibit any entrant, including your friend, from having GP scores in their most recent 20.
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In which case, they changed this year. Last year it definitely was restricted. A friend wrote a long email to Kent to complain about it, and got told to not bother them.

Edit: did some digging. They did restrict, but wasn’t none in last 20. Just none of the counting 8 could be General Play at all

1726163496056.png
 
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The short version:

Clubs will have the option to choose from the following:

For singles comps
  • They can keep the current allowance of 95%
  • They can reduce that allowance to 90% or 85%
  • Or they can increase the allowance to 100% of the Course Handicap. This would remove the Playing Handicap

For fourball stroke play competitions, including Stableford and V-Par where scores can sometimes count for handicaps, clubs can choose to:
  • Keep the current allowance of 85%
  • Reduce the allowance to 80% or 75%
  • Increase the allowance to 90%

Taking another 10% off the allowance seems too big a swing of the pendulum. It will be interesting to see if clubs do that in Ireland this season and how that works. It may not be on the table still come 2026 for England, Scotland and Wales if the figures aren't great.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The short version:

Clubs will have the option to choose from the following:

For singles comps
  • They can keep the current allowance of 95%
  • They can reduce that allowance to 90% or 85%
  • Or they can increase the allowance to 100% of the Course Handicap. This would remove the Playing Handicap

For fourball stroke play competitions, including Stableford and V-Par where scores can sometimes count for handicaps, clubs can choose to:
  • Keep the current allowance of 85%
  • Reduce the allowance to 80% or 75%
  • Increase the allowance to 90%

Taking another 10% off the allowance seems too big a swing of the pendulum. It will be interesting to see if clubs do that in Ireland this season and how that works. It may not be on the table still come 2026 for England, Scotland and Wales if the figures aren't great.
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Sweet, I can just see my club taking the 85% option so I lose even more shots. I'll be off single figures in no time!
 
Orikoru said:
Sweet, I can just see my club taking the 85% option so I lose even more shots. I'll be off single figures in no time!
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I'd lose 2 shots off both the yellow and white tees if they went 85% at my club. That's quite a move. I'm not seeing any issues with winners at my club so I would hope they leave things as they are.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The short version:

Clubs will have the option to choose from the following:

For singles comps
  • They can keep the current allowance of 95%
  • They can reduce that allowance to 90% or 85%
  • Or they can increase the allowance to 100% of the Course Handicap. This would remove the Playing Handicap

For fourball stroke play competitions, including Stableford and V-Par where scores can sometimes count for handicaps, clubs can choose to:
  • Keep the current allowance of 85%
  • Reduce the allowance to 80% or 75%
  • Increase the allowance to 90%

Taking another 10% off the allowance seems too big a swing of the pendulum. It will be interesting to see if clubs do that in Ireland this season and how that works. It may not be on the table still come 2026 for England, Scotland and Wales if the figures aren't great.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's easy to imagine clubs in the pilot over egging this to 85% for impact etc and peeing off the 90% of comp entrants/fees, who now can't win 🙃
 
Slab said:
Yeah it's easy to imagine clubs in the pilot over egging this to 85% for impact etc and peeing of the 90% of comp entrants/fees, who now can't win 🙃
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Yup. As soon as this becomes an option all the low handicappers will whinge and whine until clubs make it 85% in all comps. Not a good idea in my opinion.
 
Sounds like a distinct improvement and goes somewhat against the mantra that the WHS provides great equity and no one should be allowed to vary it at all. Now if they do the sensible thing and maintain the handicaps nationally and allow clubs , roll up groups etc to use whatever system or variant they want in their own competitions including demanding some competition scores for competitions maybe we will start to see some sanity instead of trying to over regulate everything everyone is doing locally.
 
If implemented by clubs as intended (i.e. based on field size and composition, and mostly larger fields), it will be a good thing.
If allowances are lowered indiscriminately (and severely) purely to benefit lower handicappers (which is what I fear might happen in some clubs), it will not.

Better would be to leave it to software to determine what an appropriate equitable allowance is based on the field, but that would be much more difficult to implement and gain acceptance for.
 
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Backache said:
Sounds like a distinct improvement and goes somewhat against the mantra that the WHS provides great equity and no one should be allowed to vary it at all. Now if they do the sensible thing and maintain the handicaps nationally and allow clubs , roll up groups etc to use whatever system or variant they want in their own competitions including demanding some competition scores for competitions maybe we will start to see some sanity instead of trying to over regulate everything everyone is doing locally.
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Not at all. It's exactly what is recommended in the WHS Rules of Handicapping. It was CONGU that elected to impose flat mandatory allowances for simplicity and consistency (allowances were also invariable and mandatory under the old system).
 
wjemather said:
It's exactly what is recommended in the WHS Rules of Handicapping. It was CONGU that elected to impose flat mandatory allowances for simplicity and consistency (allowances were also invariable and mandatory under the old system).
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It may be what was intended under the rules, it may be that the rules of handicapping did not intend social golf to be regulated by local busybodies on national committees .But it is what appears to have happened.
 
No, no. No changes. Dream on if you expect any changes in April. WHS is fixed. The guys who were at the EG rules and handicapping seminars were told there were no changes coming. Its on a four year cycle. No changes in between. It too late to change anything for this year. The data shows the system is as good as it xan be. 95% is the optimum balance, and not only no need to change it, but everyone must be mandated to use it. So, bottom line, no changes in the pipeline, and if there were surely if Ireland can do it, England would be able to implement it as quickly. But anyway, no changes happening, so no point debating it. Nobody is comolaining or looking for any changes to handicapping. Everyone is happy with it as it is. No changes.
Anyway, its a World handicap system, so the same everywhere. There is no question of one country, region, or association, doing anything different from another one.
 
I must say that I am somewhat shocked that this was obviously known about and not communicated by EG in their handicap workshop a couple of weeks ago.
The presenter explicitly said that there were no proposed changes at all to WHS or the application of rules in the pipeline. He maintained that there would be no alterations at all prior to the 2028 revisions. He said he specifically knew this as he sat on the GB&I Technical committee.
To be faced with this that wasn’t even hinted at let alone discussed is extremely disappointing.
A real missed opportunity to properly understand the implications and methods of implementation.
 
Backache said:
It may be what was intended under the rules, it may be that the rules of handicapping did not intend social golf to be regulated by local busybodies on national committees .But it is what appears to have happened.
Click to expand...

Ah, oh for the good old days when there was clear blue water between strokeplay comps and everything else. 🤣🤣

So, if I'm reading these pages correctly,

"There's no change imminent, apart from the forthcoming changes!"
 
Dunesman said:
No, no. No changes. Dream on if you expect any changes in April. WHS is fixed. The guys who were at the EG rules and handicapping seminars were told there were no changes coming. Its on a four year cycle. No changes in between. It too late to change anything for this year. The data shows the system is as good as it xan be. 95% is the optimum balance, and not only no need to change it, but everyone must be mandated to use it. So, bottom line, no changes in the pipeline, and if there were surely if Ireland can do it, England would be able to implement it as quickly. But anyway, no changes happening, so no point debating it. Nobody is comolaining or looking for any changes to handicapping. Everyone is happy with it as it is. No changes.
Anyway, its a World handicap system, so the same everywhere. There is no question of one country, region, or association, doing anything different from another one.
Click to expand...
These are not WHS changes and I'll wager England, Scotland and Wales are not changing immediately because it would not give their ISPs time to update their software.
 
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