WHS Query SILH

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A few hopefully quick WHS questions…I think I know the answers just need confirmation asap for a debate we are having at the club at this very moment…WhatsApp discussion is raging at the moment and I want my tuppence to be correct.

1) How many NRs can I have on a card to be submitted for WHS
2) Am I allowed at any time and for whatever reason I might chose to pick up my ball and score NR ( who’s to know in any case)
3) When I NR a hole, what score for the hole is allocated for WHS purposes
4) Is there a limit to the number of such cards present in my 20
5) Is there any penalty applied for having multiple such cards

The questions arise as my club proposes that our Saturday roll up should be submitted for WHS purposes…our rollup is casual friendly competitive with gimmies allowed. An option is for us to continue with gimmies and score NR for the hole on our WHS submission.

 

[Voyager EMH]

A few hopefully quick WHS questions…I think I know the answers just need confirmation asap for a debate we are having at the club at this very moment…WhatsApp discussion is raging at the moment and I want my tuppence to be correct.

1) How many NRs can I have on a card to be submitted for WHS
2) Am I allowed at any time and for whatever reason I might chose to pick up my ball and score NR ( who’s to know in any case)
3) When I NR a hole, what score for the hole is allocated for WHS purposes
4) Is there a limit to the number of such cards present in my 20
5) Is there any penalty applied for having multiple such cards

The questions arise as my club proposes that our Saturday roll up should be submitted for WHS purposes…our rollup is casual friendly competitive with gimmies allowed. An option is for us to continue with gimmies and score NR for the hole on our WHS submission.

For your Saturday roll-up
1) Placing in the general area
2) 2 Mulligans per player
3) Pick, rake and place in all bunkers

Makes it more fun. Let it be known and tell your committee to deal with the cards appropriately.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For your Saturday roll-up
1) Placing in the general area
2) 2 Mulligans per player
3) Pick, rake and place in all bunkers

Makes it more fun. Let it be known and tell your committee to deal with the cards appropriately.

I kinda like the cut of your ideas…but my mates in the rollup need the basic questions answered as it’s these things that mess up their thinking.

The club wants us to change from current arrangements we have.

They given an ‘as is’ option with the only change being that we have to submit 3 out of 4 rollup rounds for WHS counting thinking we’ll reject it out of hand…which many of our regulars have already done. I am actually OK with it and I suspect many agin it have not fully thought it through. Hence my questions.

 

[nickjdavis]

A few hopefully quick WHS questions…I think I know the answers just need confirmation asap for a debate we are having at the club at this very moment…WhatsApp discussion is raging at the moment and I want my tuppence to be correct.

1) How many NRs can I have on a card to be submitted for WHS
2) Am I allowed at any time and for whatever reason I might chose to pick up my ball and score NR ( who’s to know in any case)
3) When I NR a hole, what score for the hole is allocated for WHS purposes
4) Is there a limit to the number of such cards present in my 20
5) Is there any penalty applied for having multiple such cards

The questions arise as my club proposes that our Saturday roll up should be submitted for WHS purposes…our rollup is casual friendly competitive with gimmies allowed. An option is for us to continue with gimmies and score NR for the hole on our WHS submission.

1) Unlimited
2) No...the WHS assumes you will try to score your best on any hole....obviously if you are already over the nett double bogey number of strokes for a hole, then you might as well pick up.
3) Nett double bogey
4) No
5) No

 

[Deleted member 36483]

I kinda like the cut of your ideas…but my mates in the rollup need the basic questions answered as it’s these things that mess up their thinking.

The club wants us to change from current arrangements we have.

They given an ‘as is’ option with the only change being that we have to submit 3 out of 4 rollup rounds for WHS counting thinking we’ll reject it out of hand…which many of our regulars have already done. I am actually OK with it and I suspect many agin it have not fully thought it through. Hence my questions.

If you're ok with gimmes then it's not a serious competition. Either knock in the gimmes and record the score or don't record the score. If you purposely don't finish a hole when scoring a card for WHS purposes then that should result in a penalty score overall. Not what you want.

 

[wjemather]

A few hopefully quick WHS questions…I think I know the answers just need confirmation asap for a debate we are having at the club at this very moment…WhatsApp discussion is raging at the moment and I want my tuppence to be correct.

1) How many NRs can I have on a card to be submitted for WHS
2) Am I allowed at any time and for whatever reason I might chose to pick up my ball and score NR ( who’s to know in any case)
3) When I NR a hole, what score for the hole is allocated for WHS purposes
4) Is there a limit to the number of such cards present in my 20
5) Is there any penalty applied for having multiple such cards

The questions arise as my club proposes that our Saturday roll up should be submitted for WHS purposes…our rollup is casual friendly competitive with gimmies allowed. An option is for us to continue with gimmies and score NR for the hole on our WHS submission.

1) No limit
2) Only after you have reached nett double bogey for handicapping (i.e. per Course Handicap)
3) Nett double bogey
4) No
5) No, as long as the scores are genuine and you have been trying to make the best score at each hole.

6) Gimmes are not permitted for handicapping - the Rules of Golf apply. Recording gimmes as NRs would not be acceptable.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

A few hopefully quick WHS questions…I think I know the answers just need confirmation asap for a debate we are having at the club at this very moment…WhatsApp discussion is raging at the moment and I want my tuppence to be correct.

1) How many NRs can I have on a card to be submitted for WHS
2) Am I allowed at any time and for whatever reason I might chose to pick up my ball and score NR ( who’s to know in any case)
3) When I NR a hole, what score for the hole is allocated for WHS purposes
4) Is there a limit to the number of such cards present in my 20
5) Is there any penalty applied for having multiple such cards

The questions arise as my club proposes that our Saturday roll up should be submitted for WHS purposes…our rollup is casual friendly competitive with gimmies allowed. An option is for us to continue with gimmies and score NR for the hole on our WHS submission.

And there should end your handicap sec chasing you to put these in for handicap, you simply can't have gimmes, it's not the USA where any old crap goes. They're right that the sort of organise friendly comp you describe should now be considered handicap counting, but by not playing to the rules your cards should automatically be binned.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

A few hopefully quick WHS questions…I think I know the answers just need confirmation asap for a debate we are having at the club at this very moment…WhatsApp discussion is raging at the moment and I want my tuppence to be correct.

1) How many NRs can I have on a card to be submitted for WHS
2) Am I allowed at any time and for whatever reason I might chose to pick up my ball and score NR ( who’s to know in any case)
3) When I NR a hole, what score for the hole is allocated for WHS purposes
4) Is there a limit to the number of such cards present in my 20
5) Is there any penalty applied for having multiple such cards

The questions arise as my club proposes that our Saturday roll up should be submitted for WHS purposes…our rollup is casual friendly competitive with gimmies allowed. An option is for us to continue with gimmies and score NR for the hole on our WHS submission.

If someone wants to submit scores then they can play the swindle to the rules of golf and handicapping

If you play Stableford for your swindle then you pick when you can’t score and it’s a blob at the end of the day

Can’t have a “gimmie” which allows anyone to score

 

[jimbob.someroo]

A few hopefully quick WHS questions…I think I know the answers just need confirmation asap for a debate we are having at the club at this very moment…WhatsApp discussion is raging at the moment and I want my tuppence to be correct.

1) How many NRs can I have on a card to be submitted for WHS
2) Am I allowed at any time and for whatever reason I might chose to pick up my ball and score NR ( who’s to know in any case)
3) When I NR a hole, what score for the hole is allocated for WHS purposes
4) Is there a limit to the number of such cards present in my 20
5) Is there any penalty applied for having multiple such cards

The questions arise as my club proposes that our Saturday roll up should be submitted for WHS purposes…our rollup is casual friendly competitive with gimmies allowed. An option is for us to continue with gimmies and score NR for the hole on our WHS submission.

So this is the exact type of event that they should have been clearer with at the outset.

With the exception of the gimmies, this describes the general roll up at most clubs that England Golf 'suggested' members enter all scores from. The problem was that they can't enforce it, and so you've now got a situation where in the same roll up, somebody could tap in for a score each time (albeit, not taking any gimmies), and go up or down significantly over the course of a season by only playing in these events. Whereas, others could shoot 40 points every week and not see their handicap change as they're not submitting their score.

I don't really care either way (although would have a preference for all proper 'club roll ups' counting for handicap purposes), but by leaving it open to each group - and technically each person within each group - they've left the door open far too wide for abuse.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

1) No limit
2) Only after you have reached nett double bogey for handicapping (i.e. per Course Handicap)
3) Nett double bogey
4) No
5) No, as long as the scores are genuine and you have been trying to make the best score at each hole.

6) Gimmes are not permitted for handicapping - the Rules of Golf apply. Recording gimmes as NRs would not be acceptable.

Thankyou. Just what I needed. I note that I am aware of gimmies not being allowed for WHS - why I never mentioned them in my questions. We’d have to hole out. Of course that conflicts with our current ‘gimmies’ allowance and hence my questions on NRs. Gimmies should just be tap ins, but if I could not bothered tapping in I’d just pick up…and hence my questions about NRs.

One further question arising from 2). If I have a tap in for a net par and for the purposes of the rollup comp the putt is given by the others in my group, but I can’t be bothered holing it for the card…instead I pick it up and have NR scored for me for that hole … then what. It’s clear from answers that the system will give me a nett double bogey…obviously wrong. I could par every hole I picked up on and would get s nett double bogey for each. Gross manipulation. What happens in the context of WHS, and what would the club look to do if it knew.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And there should end your handicap sec chasing you to put these in for handicap, you simply can't have gimmes, it's not the USA where any old crap goes. They're right that the sort of organise friendly comp you describe should now be considered handicap counting, but by not playing to the rules your cards should automatically be binned.

I specifically did not mention gimmies in my questions to avoid debate and discussion around them. I only mentioned them extra to the questions to give context. I debated whether to do that or not as I suspected there would be debate about gimmies, when all that was was context to the questions.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Who gets to choose which 3 out of 4 rounds would be submitted and how would the other round be different?

At the moment that’s not known…but I suspect it would be the club…but that’s down the road. It’s a mess.

 

[Crow]

Thankyou. Just what I needed. I note that I am aware of gimmies not being allowed for WHS - why I never mentioned them in my questions. We’d have to hole out. Of course that conflicts with our current ‘gimmies’ allowance and hence my questions on NRs. Gimmies should just be tap ins, but if I could not bothered tapping in I’d just pick up…and hence my questions about NRs.

I've been ignoring this thread for a while but coming back to read the latest page I see this and point 6) seems a little odd.

6) Gimmes are not permitted for handicapping - the Rules of Golf apply. Recording gimmes as NRs would not be acceptable.

I don't disagree that gimmes should not be acceptable for handicapping.
And I think most golfers would not give many, if any, putts outside of three feet.

Yet "most likely score" tells us that anything within 5 feet is a single putt, surely then a 3 foot putt should be a gimme?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Thanks for all the replies to my questions. Further context is that I am in support of - rather I’m not opposed to - the club requiring our rollup rounds being played consistent with WHS - but many are very strongly not as they wish ‘gimmies’ to remain part of our rollup culture. And that cannot be for WHS rounds.

I have been looking at whether we could still have gimmies, pick up and score on the hole for our rollup, and at the same time record NR for the hole for WHS purposes (because we picked up). Clearly not.

I still say to my friends, if it’s a gimmie we can accept it for the rollup, then tap it in for WHS. If I miss the tap in then tough…shouldn’t be so careless. My WHS score for the hole is one more than my rollup score. So be it.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

Thanks for all the replies to my questions. Further context is that I am in support of - rather I’m not opposed to - the club requiring our rollup rounds being played consistent with WHS - but many are very strongly not as they wish ‘gimmies’ to remain part of our rollup culture. And that cannot be for WHS rounds.

I have been looking at whether we could still have gimmies, pick up and score on the hole for our rollup, and at the same time record NR for the hole for WHS purposes (because we picked up). Clearly not.

I still say to my friends, if it’s a gimmie we can accept it for the rollup, then tap it in for WHS. If I miss the tap in then tough…shouldn’t be so careless. My WHS score for the hole is one more than my rollup score. So be it.

Did your roll up guys fill in the WHS survey?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did your roll up guys fill in the WHS survey?

I have no idea…I haven’t seen it distributed by the club…I haven’t completed it myself.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I have no idea…I haven’t seen it distributed by the club…I haven’t completed it myself.

Should have been done by EG, SG sent all players the survey

 

[Orikoru]

Thanks for all the replies to my questions. Further context is that I am in support of - rather I’m not opposed to - the club requiring our rollup rounds being played consistent with WHS - but many are very strongly not as they wish ‘gimmies’ to remain part of our rollup culture. And that cannot be for WHS rounds.

I have been looking at whether we could still have gimmies, pick up and score on the hole for our rollup, and at the same time record NR for the hole for WHS purposes (because we picked up). Clearly not.

I still say to my friends, if it’s a gimmie we can accept it for the rollup, then tap it in for WHS. If I miss the tap in then tough…shouldn’t be so careless. My WHS score for the hole is one more than my rollup score. So be it.

This year I started putting all rounds in for the first time. To start with I didn't take any gimmies, but I've now made peace with the occasional one. If you really think about it, it doesn't actually hurt anybody, as long as you keep them within sensible length. How many gimmie-length putts do we all miss in a round when putting out? One? Less than one on average? If they're giving 3 and 4 foot putts then that's different obviously. But picking it up when it's a foot away or whatever? Just crack on I say.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This year I started putting all rounds in for the first time. To start with I didn't take any gimmies, but I've now made peace with the occasional one. If you really think about it, it doesn't actually hurt anybody, as long as you keep them within sensible length. How many gimmie-length putts do we all miss in a round when putting out? One? Less than one on average? If they're giving 3 and 4 foot putts then that's different obviously. But picking it up when it's a foot away or whatever? Just crack on I say.

Sorry Ollie…you just can’t do that…no matter how harmless you might feel it is and unlikely it’d be that you would miss a ‘gimmie’ length. Just pop them in the hole. It takes seconds.

I’m going to be making that very point to my mates in our rollup.

Nb…thanks to mods for creating new thread. I didn’t mean to create debate as my questions were structured to elicit Yes/No answers and so no debate - so didn’t feel need to start a new thread.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

This year I started putting all rounds in for the first time. To start with I didn't take any gimmies, but I've now made peace with the occasional one. If you really think about it, it doesn't actually hurt anybody, as long as you keep them within sensible length. How many gimmie-length putts do we all miss in a round when putting out? One? Less than one on average? If they're giving 3 and 4 foot putts then that's different obviously. But picking it up when it's a foot away or whatever? Just crack on I say.