sunshine
Well-known member
Well done.
Are you in England?
Are you in England?
Ethical and legal stand point at golf club ruling
- Thread starter Severof
- Start date
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 12,912
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
I haven't read all of this, but I'm thinking I'd wind them up by reminding them, that in accepting his money, and him playing, they'd be in breach of contract if they now decide he isn't eligible.
Severof
Member
Yes we are. Due to the issues raised, and not knowing the final outcome, I still wouldn't want to give the name of the club though. Many thanks
D-S
Well-known member
Seriously though, the club, by offering £2500, whether in vouchers or cash, are breaching the Rules of Amateur status. I assume that the winner who accepts this money forfeits their amateur status.
The club should be made aware of this.
As usual, the larger the prize on offer the more issues arise around the winners or winning.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
The best thing IMO is to present such facts to the club in a friendly way given the director has already accepted mea culpa on the issue the OP and his son have. It is then up to the club to decide what to do in full awareness of the issues and the sanctions that could be applied to the club and its membership if the club continues as it is doing re prize money and other things that have been pointed out,
rulie
Head Pro
Let's just be sure to keep the issues with the junior and the value of the prizes completely separate. Obviously, both are issues for the club but not related to each other.
I'm glad the club owned up to their mistake of allowing the junior to enter events he should not have been eligible for according to club policy, and would expect the club to refund any entry fees that he has paid.
It's very similar to what happened to me at my home club when I was a junior. Neither side harbored hard feelings and I continued as a member of that club, winning "board" events when I was eligible.
"Honest" mistakes happen and honest folks accept the corrections/outcomes.
I'm glad the club owned up to their mistake of allowing the junior to enter events he should not have been eligible for according to club policy, and would expect the club to refund any entry fees that he has paid.
It's very similar to what happened to me at my home club when I was a junior. Neither side harbored hard feelings and I continued as a member of that club, winning "board" events when I was eligible.
"Honest" mistakes happen and honest folks accept the corrections/outcomes.
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Crazyface
Tour Winner
I think you have your answer.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
The club admitted liability and not sure what else you could have expected. Your son knows where he stands regarding board events and the manager seemed to have been as honest and efficient as possible. If what he said is true and it hadn't come from the members but by him recognising the problem after the second round then the issue is with him and the event director and I wouldn't necessarily be looking to rush to another club. That might look like a hissy fit. If everyone is happy now you know how the land lies, stay and see how it plays out for a few months and then you can still walk
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Agree 100%. Doesn’t feel like this has come out of any bitterness from any entitled or grumpy ol’ gits of members, but is a genuine botch up…and none of us are perfect. I’m sure the OPs lad will understand, but it would be a nice gesture if, in refunding the entrance monies, the director or club wrote a note to OPs lad apologising and congratulating him on his excellent golf and how pleased the club is to have him as a junior member. Or words to that effect. OP might suggest that to the club.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
As well as the club handling this well, I think the OP has also handled this situation well. No unnecessary ranting, naming and shaming, etc - just sticking to the facts and not getting carried away with emotions. well done to all parties in sorting things in an adult manner.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
So clubs should only let full price members be eligible for comps? That would cause chaos at clubs. But I like the idea.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
No, my comment about equality was with regards to age, gender, etc not 5 day v 7 day membership
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Not so sure.
I think the 'club' is not really a 'proper' club
The competition has been very poorly organized by the 'owners'
The parent and 'club' allowing a young child to play for seriously large sums of money is absolutely bonkers
Severof
Member
For a quick update here. Club called yesterday to say that their plan was to re-instate my son in OOM. Although he was still unable to win it, he has had a 'J' installed next to his name on the electronic leaderboard in the Clubhouse, with them saying it was their equivalent to the 'A' that is displayed next to a name for amateurs in Tour events. He can still gain the points if he finishes top 10 in an event, but if he were to finish 5th in an event for example, and get 6 points, then the 6th placed adult would also get 6 and the points would be staggered down accordingly to tenth spot. Any event that my son has finished in the top 10 so far, the players that had previously finished below him, making up the remainding spots to tenth, have now each had their running totals adjusted accordingly to reflect this. The club said if he were to finish top 10 by the end of the final OOM event October, then they would award him with a prize of some sort ( Prob pro shop vouchers ). Further to this, a short email was also sent out to all members clarifying this change of the OOM last night, highlighting my son's name for the reason and the adding of 'J' etc.
We were at the range today after school. Were approached by 2 seperate members in the 2 hrs there. Both had the same opinion that he should have just been left to play. I didn't want to dwell on it, so didn't talk long and have instructed my lad to just to keep his head down for the time being and keep his feelings to himself. I think it's a win win for my lad. If he would have gone on and won it this year, there may have been some resentment, but now he has a free crack with perhaps the support of many, especially the ones who may feel he has been hard done by.
We have decided to stay until at least October to see how the land lies and see if he can grind it out to the end. In the meantime I will source out the best possible junior options for him at other clubs. As he is only 13, and most running memberships from April, he can join a couple more for under £100, play them for the next 8 months or so to see which is a best fit.
The 2 day Club Champioship is this weekend. An OOM event so we have put ouselves fwd. Really tough, A further tee box back on Tiger tees with many par 4's 180+ to reach fairway and pins cut away . My game is all over the place at the mo. 4 hcap but playing nowhere near it and have been struggling to break 85 since returning from surgery. I've got no chance. But my lad. Who knows, he'll have to have the weekend of his life, but if he does really well, I must remember to tell him, he's not allowed to win it
We were at the range today after school. Were approached by 2 seperate members in the 2 hrs there. Both had the same opinion that he should have just been left to play. I didn't want to dwell on it, so didn't talk long and have instructed my lad to just to keep his head down for the time being and keep his feelings to himself. I think it's a win win for my lad. If he would have gone on and won it this year, there may have been some resentment, but now he has a free crack with perhaps the support of many, especially the ones who may feel he has been hard done by.
We have decided to stay until at least October to see how the land lies and see if he can grind it out to the end. In the meantime I will source out the best possible junior options for him at other clubs. As he is only 13, and most running memberships from April, he can join a couple more for under £100, play them for the next 8 months or so to see which is a best fit.
The 2 day Club Champioship is this weekend. An OOM event so we have put ouselves fwd. Really tough, A further tee box back on Tiger tees with many par 4's 180+ to reach fairway and pins cut away . My game is all over the place at the mo. 4 hcap but playing nowhere near it and have been struggling to break 85 since returning from surgery. I've got no chance. But my lad. Who knows, he'll have to have the weekend of his life, but if he does really well, I must remember to tell him, he's not allowed to win it
Severof
Member
The Club aren't allowing him. So that just leaves me as 'bonkers' for allowing him. Maybe. But never once has he spoken about the prize, nor have I to him. He just loves to compete and has a twinkle in his eye when members are ribbing their mates about being beaten by him in clubhouse after. Not a 'proper golf club' too. Yeah, your'e probably right in the Traditional sense. Been playing 40 years so know there are negatives and positives for that though. The prize was vouchers for a clothing brand. Probably would have given most of it away as presents to female family members be honest pal. Any way, that's neither here nor there now. Hope your'e enjoying the Open up in Troon. A good time to be there now no doubt. My pal is a member at Kilmarnock Barassie. We play there when visiting. Nice track when the weather behaves. All the best
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
..........and......has to be said............someone cheating.
fenwayrich
Assistant Pro
I don't agree with preventing him from winning an OOM, seems to be in conflict with the recommended EDI policies advocated by England Golf.For a quick update here. Club called yesterday to say that their plan was to re-instate my son in OOM. Although he was still unable to win it, he has had a 'J' installed next to his name on the electronic leaderboard in the Clubhouse, with them saying it was their equivalent to the 'A' that is displayed next to a name for amateurs in Tour events. He can still gain the points if he finishes top 10 in an event, but if he were to finish 5th in an event for example, and get 6 points, then the 6th placed adult would also get 6 and the points would be staggered down accordingly to tenth spot. Any event that my son has finished in the top 10 so far, the players that had previously finished below him, making up the remainding spots to tenth, have now each had their running totals adjusted accordingly to reflect this. The club said if he were to finish top 10 by the end of the final OOM event October, then they would award him with a prize of some sort ( Prob pro shop vouchers ). Further to this, a short email was also sent out to all members clarifying this change of the OOM last night, highlighting my son's name for the reason and the adding of 'J' etc.
We were at the range today after school. Were approached by 2 seperate members in the 2 hrs there. Both had the same opinion that he should have just been left to play. I didn't want to dwell on it, so didn't talk long and have instructed my lad to just to keep his head down for the time being and keep his feelings to himself. I think it's a win win for my lad. If he would have gone on and won it this year, there may have been some resentment, but now he has a free crack with perhaps the support of many, especially the ones who may feel he has been hard done by.
We have decided to stay until at least October to see how the land lies and see if he can grind it out to the end. In the meantime I will source out the best possible junior options for him at other clubs. As he is only 13, and most running memberships from April, he can join a couple more for under £100, play them for the next 8 months or so to see which is a best fit.
The 2 day Club Champioship is this weekend. An OOM event so we have put ouselves fwd. Really tough, A further tee box back on Tiger tees with many par 4's 180+ to reach fairway and pins cut away . My game is all over the place at the mo. 4 hcap but playing nowhere near it and have been struggling to break 85 since returning from surgery. I've got no chance. But my lad. Who knows, he'll have to have the weekend of his life, but if he does really well, I must remember to tell him, he's not allowed to win it
On the Club Championship, I'm astonished that, as a (presumably) Scratch competition, it isn't open to everyone of a specified handicap and below, regardless of age. Surely, if you're in, it should be possible to win?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I’m waiting for our OP to enlighten us on his club’s response to the question he should ask it about the legitimacy of the prizes - with all three of 1st, 2nd and 3rd breaching the rules of amateur status…vouchers notwithstanding, money or in kind matters not.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
But is the last Sentence technically correct, at our place we have Medal and Stableford comps, which count towards OOM. The OOM is an off shoot of said comps. So technically he is entered in the two comps which contribute towards the OOM. At the end of the year the winner of the OOM is recognised on the honours board.
Severof
Member
You would think so, but no. Also 5 day members were not allowed to take part in club champs today. Tiger tees, over 7500 yards for round 1 today with knee high second cut rough. 9 players NR'd and quit on or before 10th. Only 46 runners left for tomorrow which will be on Championship course. Small field due to exclusion of 5 dayers and the older boys not fancying it. Was V tough. My lad sits in 27th. He shot 94. Said he didnt play great, but i'm glad he stuck it out. Highlight being 5 off the tee on the par 4 15th after sticking 2 OB off tee, then holing out for a double bogey 6, from 130 yards !
Spoke with a few members after, all in agreement with you.
