Who wins?

[Grant85]

I agree it's A but may be more of a challenge at a place like Augusta when set up for the Masters. Could see some very big scores if a pro missed the green and short sided the amateur.

At a championship venue, A will be even further ahead. Augusta is 7,500 yards long. Most 18 handicappers will never even have played anywhere set up more than 7,000.

And remember the data collated is from scenarios where they are playing their own ball. If you put a team out of a Pro and an 18 handicapper to specifically try for the lowest score, then the pro can obviously play away from trouble and not take on crazy flags. Knowing that the am can't play a delicate flop shot and is still likely to 2 putt from 10 or 12 feet, even if he does hit a good shot.

Remember an 18 handicapper isn't shooting 18 over par on average, he is shooting that on a good day, around his 6,000 to 6,500 yard course.
A pro will have a stroke average of 69 or so around 7,500 yard venues.

 

[robinthehood]

On the assumption that you mean that the green is missed every time by either player. (this point is not made clear in the original question)

Judging by a lot of 18 handicappers I play with I would go with by B.

The short game and putting is what makes the big difference between an 18 handicapper and a low single figure/pro the vast majority of the time. You could expect the pro to chip in or up down in two far more times than an 18 handicapper.

a pro hits on average 12 GIR vs what 2 or 3 for 18. Thats not shortgame

sorry B doesnt stand a chance,
We have had it drummed into us that short game is everything when it really isnt.

 

[MendieGK]

a pro hits on average 12 GIR vs what 2 or 3 for 18. Thats not shortgame

sorry B doesnt stand a chance

Agree. An 18 handicapper is not off 18 because of their short game and putting

 

[jim8flog]

a pro hits on average 12 GIR vs what 2 or 3 for 18. Thats not shortgame

sorry B doesnt stand a chance

please re read what I wrote particularly the first sentence.

your reply makes no sense in the light of my first sentence

 

[Grant85]

On the assumption that you mean that the green is missed every time by either player. (this point is not made clear in the original question)

Judging by a lot of 18 handicappers I play with I would go with by B.

The short game and putting is what makes the big difference between an 18 handicapper and a low single figure/pro the vast majority of the time. You could expect the pro to chip in or up down in two far more times than an 18 handicapper.

Fake news.

Definitely buy Mark Broudie 'Every Shot Counts'

And also work out why Rory McIlroy is world no. 8 despite having only won 1 event since 2016 and is not exactly famed for his short game or putting prowess.

 

[Homer]

I agree it's A but may be more of a challenge at a place like Augusta when set up for the Masters. Could see some very big scores if a pro missed the green and short sided the amateur.

No - the other way round if it’s hard course!

 

[robinthehood]

please re read what I wrote particularly the first sentence.

your reply makes no sense in the light of my first sentence

yes is see what you mean, i don't think that what your suggesting is what he is asking.

I saw it as Pro takes 1st, 2nd and 3rd shot depending if it was par 3, 4 or 5. With 18 handicap taking the putts or any resulting chips if said pro missed the green.

 

[Grant85]

a pro hits on average 12 GIR vs what 2 or 3 for 18. Thats not shortgame

sorry B doesnt stand a chance,
We have had it drummed into us that short game is everything when it really isnt.

Different courses.

Put a pro on your home course and that figure of 12 increases by 2 or 3 easilly.

 

[Homer]

please re read what I wrote particularly the first sentence.

your reply makes no sense in the light of my first sentence

Your first sentence makes no sense in how golf is played. Pros hit greens - 90 hitters don’t!

 

[MendieGK]

Agree. An 18 handicapper is not off 18 because of their short game and putting

Anyone off 18 fancy doing this with me (I’m off 2 but I think the outcome would be the same). I’d pay for someone’s green fee at burnham

 

[Homer]

Fake news.

Definitely buy Mark Broudie 'Every Shot Counts'

And also work out why Rory McIlroy is world no. 8 despite having only won 1 event since 2016 and is not exactly famed for his short game or putting prowess.

Lowest Score Wins is a great book - basically advance your ball as far as possible on every shot as long as you can safely.

 

[Dibby]

Do you know where to find the study? I’d love to read it.

Thanks a lot

I will see if I can find it, it's part of Mark Broadies work. If you're not familiar with him, he was part of the group that invented the strokes gained statistic, and has done a lot of work with statistical simulation for golf. His book "Every Shot Counts" touches on this scenario among others, including similar situations such as a scramble where a pro and an amateur both hit 2 balls, but the amateur plays the best of his 2, and the pro the worst of his 2. It's a very interesting read.

 

[robinthehood]

Different courses.

Put a pro on your home course and that figure of 12 increases by 2 or 3 easilly.

if we're talking top 50 tour pro then we have pars 4s they'd probably smack a 4 iron on to.

 

[MendieGK]

Your first sentence makes no sense in how golf is played. Pros hit greens - 90 hitters don’t!

That first sentence would make the entire exercise pointless wouldn’t it 😂

 

[MendieGK]

I will see if I can find it, it's part of Mark Broadies work. If you're not familiar with him, he was part of the group that invented the strokes gained statistic, and has done a lot of work with statistical simulation for golf. His book "Every Shot Counts" touches on this scenario among others, including similar situations such as a scramble where a pro and an amateur both hit 2 balls, but the amateur plays the best of his 2, and the pro the worst of his 2. It's a very interesting read.

Yeah I’m very familiar and use the methodology for all of my stats and practice focus

 

[Grant85]

if we're talking top 50 tour pro then we have pars 4s they'd probably smack a 4 iron on to.

Any Tour pro... the differences between the top 50 and the top 500 are marginal. Like a fraction of a stroke per day.

 

[Grant85]

Also folks, go and watch some of Mark Crossfield's recent videos. He is playing 3 hole challenges with European Tour pros. I think in Dubai.

I watched the Scott Jamieson one last night.

Now Mark is a decent player, former very competitive amateur. Didn't make it as a pro golfer, but an experienced coach and probably going to play to scratch or better around a members club.

Every tee shot, Mark is making a compromise in terms of taking on a less aggressive line compared to Scott who is just bombing it up there.

 

[Homer]

Yeah I’m very familiar and use the methodology for all of my stats and practice focus

How do you record them?

 

[Orikoru]

Agree with A. Because the pro is always going to be on or near the green for 2 or 3, so even if the 18 capper duffs a chip or three putts, at worst they're making bogey or maybe double bogey. Whereas the 18 capper playing up to the green is more likely to have a mare on a couple of holes and potentially take 4 or 5 shots to get there in the first place.

 

[sam85]

A every day of the week and twice on Sundays

Possibly not with your putting....