Golf’s Major Problems

[Happy Howie]

I have played golf for 40 years, during which I was C&H Convenor at my club for 11 years. Never in all that time have I ever been as worried about the game as I am now. The authorities, and England Golf in particular, have dumbed the game down to the point of incredulity. The issues in my opinion are as follows:
1. The WHS is a total failure. This was not required in the UK, but the powers that be didn’t have the balls to tell the USA and Australia that we weren’t having it. The Congu system had a few faults but these could have been ironed out.
2. The old maximum handicaps of 28/36 were fine. In their efforts to make the game more inclusive, they introduced the quite ridiculous 54 maximum.
3. The result of number 2 above is that the authorities have dealt low handicap golfers a very poor hand. Unless a club introduces divisionalised winners, they have little chance of picking up a prize.
4. When I was C&H, in non-qualifying comps, if a player scored in excess of 40pts then a General Play reduction of 1 shot was administered. Now, Convenors say they can’t, or are afraid to, do GP reductions. So the golfer who wins on Wed with 46pts, has the same handicap on the following Sat.

Add to that the current turmoil in the men’s professional game!

Rant over.

 

[Orikoru]

Thought this was shaping up to be a ridiculous rant, but I actually agree with everything you said.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I didnt see Congu issues being ironed out at all, they were there for a long time.

 

[IanM]

The change was (culturally) massive, but it was implemented as if it was virtually nothing at all.

There are still folk in denial or ignorance about many of the changes and issues.

But Hey, there's a massive thread about all of this already!

 

[Deleted member 29109]

And yet millions of people still play

The cost of living will have a bigger impact on participation that anything mentioned in the OP.

1. What were the faults with the CONGU system, and how would you have ironed them out?

2. Why were the 28/36 handicaps ok? What was wrong with the lower limits that preceded these? Why not have a maximum of 1 shot per hole?

3. I simply don’t see this happening at my club. Are the clubs who have such high winning scores particularly easy or do they have a lot of sandbagging?

4. Isn’t there an additional reduction for particularly low scores? And if there is an option for a handicap secretary to add a further reduction but they don’t where required then they should stand down and the club find someone with a spine to do it. Even with the WHS system, I find it very hard to believe that someone who scores 46 points doesn’t see a reduction in their index.

 

[garyinderry]

What's going on here. He's played a couple of 12 hole comps and dropped from 9 to 1.

 

[nickjdavis]

I have played golf for 40 years, during which I was C&H Convenor at my club for 11 years. Never in all that time have I ever been as worried about the game as I am now. The authorities, and England Golf in particular, have dumbed the game down to the point of incredulity. The issues in my opinion are as follows:
1. The WHS is a total failure. This was not required in the UK, but the powers that be didn’t have the balls to tell the USA and Australia that we weren’t having it. The Congu system had a few faults but these could have been ironed out.
2. The old maximum handicaps of 28/36 were fine. In their efforts to make the game more inclusive, they introduced the quite ridiculous 54 maximum.
3. The result of number 2 above is that the authorities have dealt low handicap golfers a very poor hand. Unless a club introduces divisionalised winners, they have little chance of picking up a prize.
4. When I was C&H, in non-qualifying comps, if a player scored in excess of 40pts then a General Play reduction of 1 shot was administered. Now, Convenors say they can’t, or are afraid to, do GP reductions. So the golfer who wins on Wed with 46pts, has the same handicap on the following Sat.

Add to that the current turmoil in the men’s professional game!

Rant over.

1. Rubbish. please provide hard evidence to support this stance. Anecdotal evidence will not do.
2/3. How have 54 handicaps changed things? how many 50+ handicappers do you know/have at your club? how often are 50+, hell, lets include 40+ handicappers, winning stuff at your club?
4. Highly unlikely that a golfer who shoots 46 points on day x will not be playing off a lower handicap a few days later.

Like many folks who don't like the handicapping system, you are spouting unsubstantiated nonsense with no evidence to back up your claims.

 

[PJ87]

Going to be really controversial.. I like whs. I find the EG app easy to use to add score cards.

I like the fact I can see how my mates been playing recently and compare cards

Don't see the fuss

 

[Crow]

What's going on here. He's played a couple of 12 hole comps and dropped from 9 to 1.

Haven't watched it but I think that's called click-bait.
(And that's probably why I haven't watched it)

 

[rulefan]

1. The WHS is a total failure. This was not required in the UK, but the powers that be didn’t have the balls to tell the USA and Australia that we weren’t having it. The Congu system had a few faults but these could have been ironed out.

4. When I was C&H, in non-qualifying comps, if a player scored in excess of 40pts then a General Play reduction of 1 shot was administered.

1) Slope was positively excluded under CONGU although the advantages were well know to the authorities for many years
4) Under what CONGU Rule was this applied?

 

[rulefan]

What's going on here. He's played a couple of 12 hole comps and dropped from 9 to 1.

Had his CDH handicap expired? Were his 3 rounds his 'first' 3.
Did he read the book about < 18 holes

 

[wjemather]

What's going on here. He's played a couple of 12 hole comps and dropped from 9 to 1.

Ten minutes of rambling ignorance.

 

[Marshy77]

And yet millions of people still play

The cost of living will have a bigger impact on participation that anything mentioned in the OP.

1. What were the faults with the CONGU system, and how would you have ironed them out?

2. Why were the 28/36 handicaps ok? What was wrong with the lower limits that preceded these? Why not have a maximum of 1 shot per hole?

3. I simply don’t see this happening at my club. Are the clubs who have such high winning scores particularly easy or do they have a lot of sandbagging?

4. Isn’t there an additional reduction for particularly low scores? And if there is an option for a handicap secretary to add a further reduction but they don’t where required then they should stand down and the club find someone with a spine to do it. Even with the WHS system, I find it very hard to believe that someone who scores 46 points doesn’t see a reduction in their index.

Agree on the cost of living. When your local average course was £15/20 pre COVID and it's now £35/40 that's going to have a big impact.

(I know EVERYTHING has gone up too but that also plays a part in not having spare cash for hobbies etc)

 

[IanM]

It's here, it's not going anywhere, so just get used to it.

That said, clubs need to get their act together over handicap cheats. If you've not put in comp cards, don't expect to get a prize in an Open. If you're impacted by this and you're honest, blame the cheats, not the game.

Clubs and commercial organisations are fuelling cheating with daft prizes "wholly misaligned with an AMATEUR sport."

If clubs don't run comps in divisions, well, that's their fault.

Although there's massive over complication, most folk are not bothered and just go and play.

If you want a spreadsheet to work out what you need to do next round, you need to get out a bit more!

 

[LincolnShep]

This rant offers nothing extra than has been said ad nauseum in the WHS Doesn't Work thread. I don't think we need another one.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

 

[Orikoru]

Going to be really controversial.. I like whs. I find the EG app easy to use to add score cards.

I like the fact I can see how my mates been playing recently and compare cards

Don't see the fuss

I like the app too. But is there anything to say the app couldn't have been introduced anyway, even if still on Congu? I didn't see them as being linked really.

 

[IanM]

I aldo think the App system is really good and has many benefits.

Sadly, the cheating scumbags who collude with their mates to enter bogus scores, also think this is a good idea

 

[Mel Smooth]

Low handicappers have been complaining about people playing off high handicaps since god was a boy.

I don’t see many people coming to the game worrying about being wronged in a comp when they finally get to low single figures.

Cheats will cheat, regardless of the systems in place

 

[jim8flog]

From personal experience one of the major faults with the UHS was the failure to deal adequately with the declining golfer. It required intervention from a handicap committee and again from my experience some people on handicap committees are very loathe to increase handicap proportionally. This has been majorly affected by the WHS I have seen many older players get proportionate increases in their handicaps since it came in.


I am someone who is in favour of the WHS in general having extensive experience of both (so far) having been part of a handicap committee for 10 years.

One of the other big plusses has to be course /playing handicap according to what course you will be playing on. In the near 40 years I have lived in Somerset I have played nearly every course in Dorset and a quite a few in Somerset and surrounding counties. I used to know which courses I could expect to play to my handicap, which better and which worse.
Playing lots of seniors interclub matches we knew which club we were very unlikely to beat.