Sex discrimination in golf

[harpo_72]

Why would you disrespect the course?

Dunno , perhaps disrespect is not looking after the course and not repairing the damage you do .. I do , and that’s why you won’t know I have been there.

 

[IanM]

Tying this together...
We have a group of lady Welsh internationals at our club. Seriously good golfers, colleges in America etc etc...only ever play off the back tees...unless formal comp off another set.

Most of the ladies section however are happy to tee off as far forward as the tees allow!

We make no statement re gender and tees. They are just coloured for differentiation.


The Fitness Industry must be more sexist than golf.

There are more women only gyms in Chepstow, than there are male only golf clubs in whole of Wales.

 

[Backache]

Tying this together...
We have a group of lady Welsh internationals at our club. Seriously good golfers, colleges in America etc etc...only ever play off the back tees...unless formal comp off another set.

Most of the ladies section however are happy to tee off as far forward as the tees allow!

We make no statement re gender and tees. They are just coloured for differentiation.

Pretty much the same at our club unless a competition is off designated tees, anyone can play from any tee.
Quite often in winter older male golfers play off the forward tees.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Sorry, but if the rule is "women can't play those tees but men can" it's textbook sex discrimination. If the rule is "only people who can carry it 150 yards+ can play those tees" that'd be different. Plenty of women hit it further than plenty of men.

I never said it's a rule, I said it comes down to common sense (and ability).

 

[clubchamp98]

Ours is 6500yds off the whites.
To long for a lot of the older guys, most of the ladies would never even consider these tees.
But some of the younger girls do play off them and they are very good golfers.
But the red tees are to easy for some of the better ladies, but they are more or less forced to play off them in the comps.
I thought with WHS they should have the choice as all tees are rated for all members.
But that would go both ways so men could play the shorter red tees.
I just think you should play off where your comfortable with your game.
So we put a blue set of tees at 5500yds anybody can play these but they are not rated for the comps yet.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Absolutely, and undoubtedly a lower proportion of women will want or be able to play the longer course but those that do and are capable should definitely be allowed to do so!

Absolutely. Imagine if the Korda sisters turned up to play a course only to be told they had to play off the reds as they are the ladies tees.

We have 4 tees red, blue, yellow and white. We can play from whichever we choose on any given day. Unless the comp specifies the tee. Interestingly they are rated for men, but only the blue and red are rated for women.

Tonight I followed an old couple who must have been well into their 80s. Very slowly. The man used the yellow tees and struggled to make it to many of the fairways. I know its probably force of habit, but why not just go off one of the forward tees.

As someone mentioned earlier. Tees should be used by ability, not by gender.

 

[clubchamp98]

Absolutely, and undoubtedly a lower proportion of women will want or be able to play the longer course but those that do and are capable should definitely be allowed to do so!

Definitely.
I thought this would be sorted out by the introduction of WHS.
All tees rated for all members , can’t see why anybody can’t choose the tees they want to play.

Just an aside seen four 12/13 yr olds today while having a coffee.
All pegged it up on the whites ,right in front of the conservatory’s spike bar.
Three hit good shots but one hit the ball fantastic little high draw. Very impressed I was.
The best dressed fourball I had seen for a long time as well.
Great to see.

 

[Kellfire]

Sometimes I think you just want to argue no matter how totally stupid your point is. Have another think about this.

I bet it’s unusual for you to have a middle aged man explain to you how you’re wrong to feel you’re discriminated against, eh?

 

[4LEX]

Too many men play off white tees when they should be off yellows. Tees should be handicap graded for everyone and the term ladies tees abolished. Always thought it absurd how men have 3 sets of tees yet the ladies only one.

 

[sunshine]

I've seen a LET player at my course a few times this year. She plays from the whites like me. But some people think that she should have to play off the reds because she is a woman? And she's being disrespectful by turning up as a visitor and playing off the whites instead of the reds? The course is over 1,000 yards shorter off the red tees, but yes she should know her place and stick to where she belongs. The kitchen

 

[Kellfire]

I guess the moral of the story that some of us are trying to say is; why should anyone respect the wishes of a club that doesn’t respect them.

Phil, this next question isn’t an attack it’s a genuine attempt to understand your thinking. As someone from an ex-military background, where one of the core values is that you must follow authority almost without question, is there a chance you’re displaying that attitude here because that value has stayed with you into civilian life?

 

[ExRabbit]

Ah so revising for exams is cheating??
You could limit people to 1 round a week as well because they will get an unfair advantage by playing frequently..

a) I never used the word 'cheating'

b) You are either a troll or just an an idiot, either way I'm going to ignore anything else you post.

Congrats - you are the first person I put on ignore.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I guess the moral of the story that some of us are trying to say is; why should anyone respect the wishes of a club that doesn’t respect them.

Phil, this next question isn’t an attack it’s a genuine attempt to understand your thinking. As someone from an ex-military background, where one of the core values is that you must follow authority almost without question, is there a chance you’re displaying that attitude here because that value has stayed with you into civilian life?

Talking about the Military when you haven’t got a clue and you are wrong, makes you no better than him.

 

[harpo_72]

Talking about the Military when you haven’t got a clue and you are wrong, makes you no better than him.

Bit strong response, it was a good genuine question to ask and trying to understand someone else’s viewpoint/ stand point.
The art of negotiation is to understand the drivers of the debate.
Or you can just just argue pointlessly never understanding the motivations for the others arguments.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Bit strong response, it was a good genuine question to ask and trying to understand someone else’s viewpoint/ stand point.
The art of negotiation is to understand the drivers of the debate.
Or you can just just argue pointlessly never understanding the motivations for the others arguments.

Bit strong This debate is irrelevant to LP’s background and kellfire’s motivation is once again to put others down by trying to look clever.

It’s neither a core value or something the Military are trained to do.

I’m sure he could talk about issues in the NHS and people discriminating or bullying colleagues etc.

 

[harpo_72]

It’s neither a core value or something the Military are trained to do.
.

May be it should be referred to as discipline, I am not ex military I worked a lot with ex military people and I worked in a field of professional sports where discipline is required and the ex military guys were a dream to work with.
When I ask people to do something I am not really interested in their opinion, I expect them to do it. We can discuss opinions post event and that’s what I will always say. It’s not a gender thing it’s about getting the job done and accepting the decision making process.
This does cross over into your civilian life, I find it very hard to work with people who don’t have this experience and want to perpetually discuss stuff as opposed to get on with the task in hand.
And yes some on here have said I have a high handed approach… but I am entitled to question others authority as much as they can question mine. So asking why the tee boxes are not available to women is a fair question, as is asking why you cannot play the competition tees is not an unfair question… it’s just some of us will judge the answer and make a decision based on the judgement- which is play the ones you want, walk away

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Golf clubs may or may not have valid reasons to do with which tees you have to play from. They may wish to protect the back tees for competitions or to make a competition feel a bit more 'special' or they may be just too belligerent to change the rules. Either way you have to follow the club rules. If you are a member and don't like them then challenge them via the committee. If you are a visitor and don't like them just go somewhere else instead. But to think you have the right to set your own rules is just wrong.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

May be it should be referred to as discipline, I am not ex military I worked a lot with ex military people and I worked in a field of professional sports where discipline is required and the ex military guys were a dream to work with.
When I ask people to do something I am not really interested in their opinion, I expect them to do it. We can discuss opinions post event and that’s what I will always say. It’s not a gender thing it’s about getting the job done and accepting the decision making process.
This does cross over into your civilian life, I find it very hard to work with people who don’t have this experience and want to perpetually discuss stuff as opposed to get on with the task in hand.
And yes some on here have said I have a high handed approach… but I am entitled to question others authority as much as they can question mine. So asking why the tee boxes are not available to women is a fair question, as is asking why you cannot play the competition tees is not an unfair question… it’s just some of us will judge the answer and make a decision based on the judgement- which is play the ones you want, walk away

I totally understand anybody deciding how to spend their money, but I don’t see the link between that and females being told were to play regardless of money.

All tees should be gender free and all Clubs should reserve the right to open or close any tee as they see fit.

We are not allowed to use our White Tees out of competition, is it annoying? Sort of, but I knew that when I joined and I accept it.

As for the bit in bold, there is a time and place for that way of working, but it’s not how the Military train, infact, to use a cliche, you could risk lives and discussing it afterwards could be too late.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I guess the moral of the story that some of us are trying to say is; why should anyone respect the wishes of a club that doesn’t respect them.

Phil, this next question isn’t an attack it’s a genuine attempt to understand your thinking. As someone from an ex-military background, where one of the core values is that you must follow authority almost without question, is there a chance you’re displaying that attitude here because that value has stayed with you into civilian life?

1. I don’t think you understand the “core values” of the military and its most certainly not to “follow authority without question”

2. My respect for the rules comes from my upbringing from my parents - and that “attitude” will stay with me and also with my daughter. Abiding by the rules and laws of the land imo should always every single persons core value

3. Golf is a sport of self policing - we are expected to follow the rules of the sport and the rules of the club - if a club has made it their club rule that people go off a certain tee then I fully expect people to follow the club rule - someone stating that they will go of whatever tee they want regardless of the rules imo is disrespectful to the club and it would make people question what other rules they are happy to ignore

If someone isn’t happy with a clubs rules then don’t play there - or if a member try and change things like I have over the last number of years which includes members and guests being able to play off whatever tee they wish. If someone feels a club isn’t respecting them then the person has a choice - don’t play there

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I guess the moral of the story that some of us are trying to say is; why should anyone respect the wishes of a club that doesn’t respect them.

Phil, this next question isn’t an attack it’s a genuine attempt to understand your thinking. As someone from an ex-military background, where one of the core values is that you must follow authority almost without question, is there a chance you’re displaying that attitude here because that value has stayed with you into civilian life?

The reason you should respect the wishes of the club you are playing is because everything on in and on the venue belongs to the club.
You come into my house as a guest, or into my hotel as a paying guest, you respect my rules. End of.
Any behaviour you do in contravention if those rules is bad mannered to say the least.
Now, the question whether or not one of those rules is wrong or not and should be changed , is a different matter. I agree that the EGU or whatever should require clubs to allow play from any tee according to ability or comfort, but until such actions are permitted by the club, then I go with the clubs rules.
if you can't see the difference there then it says a lot more about your anarchist tendencies than it does about your fairminded ability to respect rules that you don't agree with.
That's why there are things like votes, AGMs, committees , MPs etc which are
vehicles for people to use to change the rules that irk or offend them.