Golf Course Closed again

[federalexpress]

If you are playing a match you are usually a damn sight quicker than those playing social golf. When I've played any match that has gone back up the first we've always asked anyone on the first politely if they mind us carrying on.I

I've also played matches where we have been held up on every hole and not let through.

I really don't see a problem with letting anyone through it they are playing a match.

Really? I suppose if it's a 2 ball behind a 4 ball, then yes. But same number of players, then every match I've been around has always been way, way slower and it's me that is held up. They map out each putt as though they are Nicklaus but play like Schwarzenegger. All to win 50 quid...

 

[PaulMdj]

Except of course that it isn't (I can't do those emojis, but imagine one)

But it really is, I've never seen people win a trophy for playing social golf at their own club.
Some people take these comps very seriously.

 

[federalexpress]

But it really is, I've never seen people win a trophy for playing social golf at their own club.
Some people take these comps very seriously.

It really really isn't. People like me take their social golf more seriously than someone else winning a naff trophy. Everyone to their own, but if we all pay the same fee, we have to get equal treatment on the courses we pay for.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If you are playing a match you are usually a damn sight quicker than those playing social golf. When I've played any match that has gone back up the first we've always asked anyone on the first politely if they mind us carrying on.I

I've also played matches where we have been held up on every hole and not let through.

I really don't see a problem with letting anyone through it they are playing a match.

Pace of play trumps everything but if pace doesn't come into it then they really aren't more important. They are just golfers on the course, same as everyone else. Unless they want to pay higher fees, or the rest of us get a discount in order to stand aside

 

[PaulMdj]

It really really isn't. People like me take their social golf more seriously than someone else winning a naff trophy. Everyone to their own, but if we all pay the same fee, we have to get equal treatment on the courses we pay for.

Not sure about every Club, but ours charge a nominal fee to enter the comps and put a higher priority on said comps.

So any saturday or sunday when a club is holding a comp, tee times should be left free during the comp for people like you who want equal treatment?

 

[PaulMdj]

Pace of play trumps everything but if pace doesn't come into it then they really aren't more important. They are just golfers on the course, same as everyone else. Unless they want to pay higher fees, or the rest of us get a discount in order to stand aside

Apart from those pushing in when not booking a tee time, I don’t see your issue?

 

[Mandofred]

This wouldn't even be an issue if everybody just played at a decent speed (not slow). I also don't see any reason for a couple of people out to play a club knockout match should get a free run through the course....as long as play isn't slow it shouldn't be an issue. I label this as the ol' "this is the way we've always done it" issue. How many times at an old club did I get into an argument with a couple of guys that insisted that a 2 ball behind you be let through, even though the course was just jammed up and everybody was waiting? You shouldn't get extra privileges just because you are a 2 ball....you should be let through IF there is room to move into and they are going faster than your group.

I've also never understood the arguments against long standing roll-ups not able to get a set booking. The people who hate roll-ups don't want that, the people who do love roll-ups DO want that. Yet....the club blocks times for comps, visiting parties, Opens, tourneys of all sorts, ladies mornings, etc etc.....so it's fine to block some times, but not others.... I've purposely moved to my new club just because they do have booked roll-ups several times a week. The people who don't like roll-ups but hate the blocked booking could still play golf, but not the way THEY want to. What they want is more important...... This is unfortunately the way golf is, everybody wants things the way that they like it and want to stop anything else.

 

[PaulMdj]

This wouldn't even be an issue if everybody just played at a decent speed (not slow). I also don't see any reason for a couple of people out to play a club knockout match should get a free run through the course....as long as play isn't slow it shouldn't be an issue. I label this as the ol' "this is the way we've always done it" issue. How many times at an old club did I get into an argument with a couple of guys that insisted that a 2 ball behind you be let through, even though the course was just jammed up and everybody was waiting? You shouldn't get extra privileges just because you are a 2 ball....you should be let through IF there is room to move into and they are going faster than your group.

I've also never understood the arguments against long standing roll-ups not able to get a set booking. The people who hate roll-ups don't want that, the people who do love roll-ups DO want that. Yet....the club blocks times for comps, visiting parties, Opens, tourneys of all sorts, ladies mornings, etc etc.....so it's fine to block some times, but not others.... I've purposely moved to my new club just because they do have booked roll-ups several times a week. The people who don't like roll-ups but hate the blocked booking could still play golf, but not the way THEY want to. What they want is more important...... This is unfortunately the way golf is, everybody wants things the way that they like it and want to stop anything else.

I like roll ups, no issue with block bookings etc, but I think you’re wrong to compare them to visiting parties, opens, comps etc. Clubs make nothing from roll ups apart from bar takings, all the other things you listed bring revenue (much needed in some cases) to the Club.

 

[Mandofred]

I like roll ups, no issue with block bookings etc, but I think you’re wrong to compare them to visiting parties, opens, comps etc. Clubs make nothing from roll ups apart from bar takings, all the other things you listed bring revenue (much needed in some cases) to the Club.

Well, really disagree about clubs not getting anything from the roll-ups. These are the people that have supported the club for 20-40 years. The same ones that spend tons of money at the bar. They are the main source of revenue for the club.

I don't really have issues with visiting parties, opens etc either.....I just don't like the club to use the excuse of "it isn't fair if we block those times for the roll-ups, it's not fair to the people who want to play with their buddies". The club has then made a decision that the "right way" to play is to leave all tee times open for anybody.....and then turn around and block all sorts of times for things that THEY want to happen. One of the main reasons I just left a club in Harrogate was because of the overbooking of days for all sorts of things that blocked the membership from playing. It made the club more money, but stopped the paying membership from getting on the course.

 

[PaulMdj]

Well, really disagree about clubs not getting anything from the roll-ups. These are the people that have supported the club for 20-40 years. The same ones that spend tons of money at the bar. They are the main source of revenue for the club.

I don't really have issues with visiting parties, opens etc either.....I just don't like the club to use the excuse of "it isn't fair if we block those times for the roll-ups, it's not fair to the people who want to play with their buddies". The club has then made a decision that the "right way" to play is to leave all tee times open for anybody.....and then turn around and block all sorts of times for things that THEY want to happen. One of the main reasons I just left a club in Harrogate was because of the overbooking of days for all sorts of things that blocked the membership from playing. It made the club more money, but stopped the paying membership from getting on the course.

As I said, the only contribution is bar takings, whether they play in a roll up or not, they’ve paid the fee and it’s irrelevant how long they’ve been members. If everybody pays the same fee why should it matter if they’ve been a member 1 year or 40yrs.

Opens, visiting parties bring thousands of extra income plus bar takings to the club.

Obviously it needs to be a balance, but a club will soon learn if members vote with their feet.

 

[federalexpress]

Not sure about every Club, but ours charge a nominal fee to enter the comps and put a higher priority on said comps.

So any saturday or sunday when a club is holding a comp, tee times should be left free during the comp for people like you who want equal treatment?

But unless you operate very differently, part of the nominal fee goes to a small prize fund, and in our case, the rest towards the salary of the bloke the club employs to manage comps. It is not thefore creating any extra fee income versus a social golfer.

On your second point, we are two courses so we can have one for comps, one for social golf. Once they had both courses booked for comps and that was rightly complained about and stopped.

With one course, it is harder and so will need compromise. I think not by inserting social golf tee times in the middle of a competition. That definitely won't work. What I presume happens is that a bloc of time is set aside for a comp- after all, very many members do want to play in them- but also a bloc for those playing social golf. I guess you'd have to plan that according to your member profile. Ours is roughly 40% who never play comps and probably a decent % of the balance only do so rarely. So 50-50 makes sense.

We have drifted off our previous topic, status on the course. I do not at all accept the idea that playing in a comp/match confers any special status.If you are a 2 ball, being held up by a 4 ball, the usual courtesies and pace of play rules apply, regardless who is playing in a comp/match. Obviously if you don't intermingle tee times, that won't happen much. The only time is happened to me was a fourball playing a match sponsored by a newspaper, basically external to the club- so 2 were non members. They were appalling, 5 hours to get round and subject to very many complaints. As a result the club banned any such externally sanctioned matches being played on the course, or at least not without the specific say so of the club. And quite right too...

 

[PaulMdj]

But unless you operate very differently, part of the nominal fee goes to a small prize fund, and in our case, the rest towards the salary of the bloke the club employs to manage comps. It is not thefore creating any extra fee income versus a social golfer. We do operate differently, a % goes to the prize fund on the day, the remainder goes to the Captains fund to pay for end of season trophies and help towards team costs, our Comps Committee are all unpaid volunteers.

On your second point, we are two courses so we can have one for comps, one for social golf. Once they had both courses booked for comps and that was rightly complained about and stopped.

With one course, it is harder and so will need compromise. I think not by inserting social golf tee times in the middle of a competition. That definitely won't work. What I presume happens is that a bloc of time is set aside for a comp- after all, very many members do want to play in them- but also a bloc for those playing social golf. I guess you'd have to plan that according to your member profile. Ours is roughly 40% who never play comps and probably a decent % of the balance only do so rarely. So 50-50 makes sense.
We only have block bookings for Comps, Seniors Midweek, home Team matches and visiting societies, the remainder by default are avsilable for Socal Golf or members booking internal comps, neither have priority.
We have drifted off our previous topic, status on the course. I do not at all accept the idea that playing in a comp/match confers any special status.If you are a 2 ball, being held up by a 4 ball, the usual courtesies and pace of play rules apply, regardless who is playing in a comp/match. Obviously if you don't intermingle tee times, that won't happen much. The only time is happened to me was a fourball playing a match sponsored by a newspaper, basically external to the club- so 2 were non members. They were appalling, 5 hours to get round and subject to very many complaints. As a result the club banned any such externally sanctioned matches being played on the course, or at least not without the specific say so of the club. And quite right too... If you are talking about the Daily Mail Foursomes (I’m not aware of any other newspaper sponsored events) then that csn depend year on year and also how well the 2 members of the Club get on! 5hrs for Foursomes is shocking. The booking of any home ties for that comp is down to the 2 members playing and gets no special trestment.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No Play Zones that had been defining areas still too wet for play were today removed. One area particularly damaged by flooding and deposition of silt is now GUR. Other two now fully in play, and rest of course is good underfoot.

We are drying out…eventually…

 

[Golfnut1957]

We closed last week for a day following some serious stuff the previous day. The good news is we appear to be at the point where the course can cope, i.e. the drying out is equal to a rainy day and only a sustained period of biblical stuff will set us back.

Of course, a sustained period of no rain at all would be perfect. Is it too much to ask?

 

[federalexpress]

I think this comes down to what you mean by priority or special treatment. If it just means that there are block bookings for competitions for some of the tee times on a given day, I don't see that as priority or special treatment. While I and very many others don't play in comps, lots of members do want to play in them so it is reasonable they should have the opportunity to do so.

I'll give you an example of what I regard as unreasonable 'priority'. As a 2 course club, we stagger our greens maintenance with a roughly 4 week gap. It used to be the case that during maintenance periods, comps had priority on the 'good' course. Because we have comps of some sort most days, it meant that the social golfer faced months playing a poor course for months at a time, especially during the week of maintenance, when the greens were in especially poor condition and/or required a temp to allow the work to happen. This is manifestly unfair. I want to play on a decent course every bit as much as someone playing in a comp, no matter how important the latter thinks their game is.

We managed a compromise of sorts by simply closing the course having maintenance entirely for one week, and not having any comps during that week. It's still not ideal but at least it was a step in the right direction.

 

[PaulMdj]

I think this comes down to what you mean by priority or special treatment. If it just means that there are block bookings for competitions for some of the tee times on a given day, I don't see that as priority or special treatment. While I and very many others don't play in comps, lots of members do want to play in them so it is reasonable they should have the opportunity to do so.

I'll give you an example of what I regard as unreasonable 'priority'. As a 2 course club, we stagger our greens maintenance with a roughly 4 week gap. It used to be the case that during maintenance periods, comps had priority on the 'good' course. Because we have comps of some sort most days, it meant that the social golfer faced months playing a poor course for months at a time, especially during the week of maintenance, when the greens were in especially poor condition and/or required a temp to allow the work to happen. This is manifestly unfair. I want to play on a decent course every bit as much as someone playing in a comp, no matter how important the latter thinks their game is.

We managed a compromise of sorts by simply closing the course having maintenance entirely for one week, and not having any comps during that week. It's still not ideal but at least it was a step in the right direction.

So the compromise for that week is those that like comps have to suck it up and go without?

 

[clubchamp98]

We have comp days midweek.
You can play in the comp if you want, but you can play social golf if you don’t want to.

Saturday is basically comp only as there are so many want to play.
Sunday is social only.

 

[Imurg]

So the compromise for that week is those that like comps have to suck it up and go without?

OMG...a week without comps...how will they survive..?

 

[federalexpress]

So the compromise for that week is those that like comps have to suck it up and go without?

Yep. Because they didn't want to take their turn playing the 'bad' course.

 

[PaulMdj]

OMG...a week without comps...how will they survive..?

I’m sure they will, I just don’t see how that is described as a compromise.

Yep. Because they didn't want to take their turn playing the 'bad' course.

So did the Club have a vote or was it the committee making the decision?