England Golf General Play Restrictions

[doublebogey7]

I can't see any individual handicap events run by England Golf on the website other than the Race to Woodhall Spa.
As the names and clubs are published it is easy to check their playing history.

Senior and Captains series events are both individual stroke play events off handicap.

 

[rulefan]

Senior and Captains series events are both individual stroke play events off handicap.

Do Seniors and Captains really cheat?

 

[D-S]

Do Seniors and Captains really cheat?

Heaven forbid!
However, the Race to Woodhall Spa is open to "Club golfers of all ages" so EG Individual Handicap Events are pretty comprehensive!

 

[jim8flog]

Its not nonsense though is it, I could achieve a + handicap within 2 weeks if I fancied it.

Just submit GP scores ive totally made up and get my best mate to approve them on the app.

Bosh, plus handicapper, opens here I come.

Until you come up on handicap review report and it is compared against scores in elite events. We had one such player and quickly stopped his antics (pre WHS).

 

[jim8flog]

Exactly! I think they should just disallow golf club members from the function of the app scoring and force them to sign in/ out via the pro shop.

That way at least the pro knows you've been out for a round and someone (a PP) can attest to the score. Fair enough, you can still fudge it but I think less would if they had to hand a card to the pro after.

We get around 40 players a day submitting GP scores - can you imagine all the extra work your proposal would cause (ps the pros have nothing to do with comps and handicaps where I play we have an office for that).

 

[jim8flog]

• A player could theoretically get up to 6 shots hack on their course handicap in 10-20 rounds

No they cannot

The maximum is 5 and remember they cannot go higher than 5 from their lowest HI for a year.

 

[jim8flog]

Anyone spot the difference?

What do you think the person handling the card in the 'office' actually did with it?

Check they signed in, check handicap, check signatures put the scores on the computer.

 

[Swango1980]

No they cannot

The maximum is 5 and remember they cannot go higher than 5 from their lowest HI for a year.

Did you not note that I said "course handicap", not Index?

 

[rosecott]

Its not nonsense though is it, I could achieve a + handicap within 2 weeks if I fancied it.

Just submit GP scores ive totally made up and get my best mate to approve them on the app.

Bosh, plus handicapper, opens here I come.

An averagely competent Handicap Committee would expose you with no problem.

 

[rosecott]

Do Seniors and Captains really cheat?

I know of a club whose Captain was exposed for cheating. He admitted to it and left the club.

 

[wjemather]

How can it with a drawn comp?

We cant enter any comps with chosen PP's at my club (bar team/ pairs events - but the other pairing will be randomly selected)

The vast majority of golfers will rarely (if ever) encounter drawn playing groups when it comes to regular club comps, especially on a weekday.

 

[clubchamp98]

The EG Competitions Committee/Department are primarily concerned with Elite competitions. Where they have an oversubscription problem they have introduced a 'filter'.
Clubs, Counties, Districts etc can and should decide for themselves how they manage entries.

That was normally done by your exact handicap wasn’t it?

so why have they changed ?
trust has gone out the window imo.

 

[D-S]

An averagely competent Handicap Committee would expose you with no problem.

I agree 100%, but as you say the average one will, which by definition means that there are a lot of below average Handicap Committees out there.

 

[Swango1980]

An averagely competent Handicap Committee would expose you with no problem.

He has given a very extreme example, plus handicap in 2 weeks. Would be even more extreme if starting handicap was high.

However, let us say it did happen, would be interesting to see how an average handicap Committee would go about exposing it. Firstly, they'd probably need some sort of physical register, to.prove the player wasn't actually on the course. I'd imagine few have such a register?

Let us say the player was at least a little bit more cunning, and made sure they actually played golf, just put in fake scores. Handicap Committee are somehow alerted a player has gone to a plus handicap. Review the records, and notice some very recent excellent GP rounds. They accuse the player of cheating. The player says that is scandalous, and marker backs him up. They suspend handicap anyway, player takes it to the County. Do the Committee genuinely have any proof, or is it circumstantial?

On another note, wonder how many clubs actually have a Handicap Committee in practice, rather than on paper? In my experience, clubs have one person who deals with handicaps at all times, but they might have a couple help them out once a year at Annual Review. I know a club SHOULD have a handicap Committee, so was just musing how many don't actually have one?

 

[clubchamp98]

I agree 100%, but as you say the average one will, which by definition means that there are a lot of below average Handicap Committees out there.

Most are volunteers though.
we did say before WHS was implemented that the H/cap secs workload would increase.
now they are looking for manipulators.

 

[doublebogey7]

He has given a very extreme example, plus handicap in 2 weeks. Would be even more extreme if starting handicap was high.

However, let us say it did happen, would be interesting to see how an average handicap Committee would go about exposing it. Firstly, they'd probably need some sort of physical register, to.prove the player wasn't actually on the course. I'd imagine few have such a register?

Let us say the player was at least a little bit more cunning, and made sure they actually played golf, just put in fake scores. Handicap Committee are somehow alerted a player has gone to a plus handicap. Review the records, and notice some very recent excellent GP rounds. They accuse the player of cheating. The player says that is scandalous, and marker backs him up. They suspend handicap anyway, player takes it to the County. Do the Committee genuinely have any proof, or is it circumstantial?

I would say the vast majority of clubs have a register, by way of a tee booking system.
It would seem to me that if a Handicap Committee was to have a concern over GP scores, there first port of call would not be to accuse a player of cheating and thus suspending the handicap, but to remove those GP scores from the record. I would be very surprised if the an appeal would be successful given that EG provide a report for this very purpose.

 

[D-S]

He has given a very extreme example, plus handicap in 2 weeks. Would be even more extreme if starting handicap was high.

However, let us say it did happen, would be interesting to see how an average handicap Committee would go about exposing it. Firstly, they'd probably need some sort of physical register, to.prove the player wasn't actually on the course. I'd imagine few have such a register?

Let us say the player was at least a little bit more cunning, and made sure they actually played golf, just put in fake scores. Handicap Committee are somehow alerted a player has gone to a plus handicap. Review the records, and notice some very recent excellent GP rounds. They accuse the player of cheating. The player says that is scandalous, and marker backs him up. They suspend handicap anyway, player takes it to the County. Do the Committee genuinely have any proof, or is it circumstantial?

On another note, wonder how many clubs actually have a Handicap Committee in practice, rather than on paper? In my experience, clubs have one person who deals with handicaps at all times, but they might have a couple help them out once a year at Annual Review. I know a club SHOULD have a handicap Committee, so was just musing how many don't actually have one?

In my County, as far as I am aware, all of the clubs have a Handicap Committee. A lot of effort is put in to up skill those committees, seminars are being held now for Handicap Committees across the country to review their and player obligations, as well as to update them on the finer points of WHS and share best practice .
However the spectrum is very wide when it comes to experience, knowledge and diligence - as this is volunteer driven and often run by knowledgeable enthusiasts, when these leave or give up then the void they leave behind is very big and takes time to get back up to speed. There also tends to be more enthusiastic and a greater number of volunteers at member clubs than proprietary however, some of the best committees we have are in fact from non member owned clubs.

 

[wjemather]

Most are volunteers though.
we did say before WHS was implemented that the H/cap secs workload would increase.
now they are looking for manipulators.

Overall workload has decreased with WHS.
And fwiw, weeding out manipulation was always part of the job.

 

[clubchamp98]

Overall workload has decreased with WHS.
And fwiw, weeding out manipulation was always part of the job.

If that’s the case how come so many vanity handicaps are getting into elite comps.
so many in fact that EG have had to act.?

 

[Swango1980]

If that’s the case how come so many vanity handicaps are getting into elite comps.
so many in fact that EG have had to act.?

Because the workload of handicap committees has decreased?