England Golf and General Play Scores

[Bratty]

I haven't put a card in since end September. I played most rounds since then in swindles where they play gimmees, so I don't put a card in. Most comps since then have been non-qualifiers and we've also played pick and place everywhere in most swindle or social games as the course has been horrible.
As soon as it's back to proper rules and proper comps, cards will be going in.

 

[Imurg]

Or, dont put in cards for some of the non competition days ?

Which goes against what EG would like which is if there's no reason to not put a card in...put a card in...
WHS index is built around form....it reflects your current ability.....
How can a competition card from 18 months ago reflect current form?

 

[rulie]

Which goes against what EG would like which is if there's no reason to not put a card in...put a card in...
WHS index is built around form....it reflects your current ability.....
How can a competition card from 18 months ago reflect current form?

"Current form" is reflected by the best eight scores of your last 20. I realize that you are dealing with different posting requirements/restrictions in the UK than I am in Canada. But last year I posted nearly 70 scores.
Of course, if a person only enters 20 scores over two or three years, the handicap index will not likely represent "current form", but it still is the player's handicap index. Hence the objective of entering more scores.
However, there probably wasn't much about your previous system with only 0.1 increases that represented "current form" for many players either.

 

[Swango1980]

What is their rationale for this ? I dont want to be a bandit. If I put in cards for non competitive rounds my HI would be 5-10 shots higher. Then when I play in a competition and win it by 10, people would say I am a handicap manipulating cheat. So I play honestly, and dont put in GP cards

Are you a right handed golfer, that plays left handed socially? Just curious why your handicap would be significantly better in competition rounds. 5 to 10 shots is massive

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm still wondering why someone whose handicap is based on GP scores - because they don't like playing in competitions - wants to enter a competition?

Opens are a chance to play different, and very nice, courses at a reduced rate. They can also be fun socially. Pairs comps are a different beastie to individual comps.

 

[wjemather]

I don’t think we’re kidding ourselves - we know the cheats and handicap manipulators get through but that doesn’t mean you sit back and have no rules! I hate being on H&C because of all the grief and whining! It’s the worst job in a club by far but someone has to do it and it’s rare anyone volunteers to help!!

Such blanket restrictions have close to zero effect on preventing cheats getting through because the vast majority of them do actually play competitions; such people have always been happy to lose a bit of money sandbagging in lesser comps in order to improve their chances of winning one with bigger prizes.

 

[wjemather]

What is their rationale for this ? I dont want to be a bandit. If I put in cards for non competitive rounds my HI would be 5-10 shots higher. Then when I play in a competition and win it by 10, people would say I am a handicap manipulating cheat. So I play honestly, and dont put in GP cards.

If true it would be obvious that you were not trying to make your best scores (playing honestly) in non-competition golf.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

So I think we generally agree. WHS is a system that is easier to manipulate than it's predecessor and this is likely to continue as more formats are added to acceptable rounds.

There will always be people who are willing to work the system for personal gain and aggrandisement.

Many knock-out and open competitions will suffer as people will not want to enter what the consider is now an unfair competition.

World golf is committed to the system and it won't change so we are where we are.

Let's just hope that if it ever stops raining we can go out and play some golf with friends, play some great golf courses and find something different to complain about.

 

[Backsticks]

Are you a right handed golfer, that plays left handed socially? Just curious why your handicap would be significantly better in competition rounds. 5 to 10 shots is massive

I have 3 modes of playing I guess, and enjoy them each in their own way.
Competition rounds are the only ones where I could say I truly try to make a good score, and play by the rules.
Other rounds are either, friendly rounds where the walk and chat and bit of light rivalry is the purpose (score itself borderline irrelevant), or, ones I see as practice rounds with the goal of pushing the boundaries and improving. Both will be more lax with the rules, with a goal of just playing on, maybe not looking for a ball at all, or looking for longer than 3 mins and playing it if we find it if we are held up anyway. I will try shots I would not make in a counting round, and will probably have jumped straight from car to first tee shot possibly without even a single loosener swing. I will try a fairway wood over the stream, or a flop shot. Its fun. But not to be done if trying to produce a best score. I will be experimenting with technique. In a card round, I dont, but focus on the shot. Its mainly a mindset thing. I will take less care with shot choice, considering the wind, or even distance - simply hitting without even checking the GPS. I love competing - but I dont want to compete - even in a general play sense - every round I play.


I think the above is much of what accounts for the difference between our handicap culture and the American WHS and card every round culture. Their HIs are higher as a result. I am still of the mindset that my HI should be based to rounds where I tried to play my best.

 

[Backsticks]

If true it would be obvious that you were not trying to make your best scores (playing honestly) in non-competition golf.

Yes, thats exactly it.
But my honesty is restored, by not submitting a card that would distort my handicap to banditry.

 

[clubchamp98]

I have 3 modes of playing I guess, and enjoy them each in their own way.
Competition rounds are the only ones where I could say I truly try to make a good score, and play by the rules.
Other rounds are either, friendly rounds where the walk and chat and bit of light rivalry is the purpose (score itself borderline irrelevant), or, ones I see as practice rounds with the goal of pushing the boundaries and improving. Both will be more lax with the rules, with a goal of just playing on, maybe not looking for a ball at all, or looking for longer than 3 mins and playing it if we find it if we are held up anyway. I will try shots I would not make in a counting round, and will probably have jumped straight from car to first tee shot possibly without even a single loosener swing. I will try a fairway wood over the stream, or a flop shot. Its fun. But not to be done if trying to produce a best score. I will be experimenting with technique. In a card round, I dont, but focus on the shot. Its mainly a mindset thing. I will take less care with shot choice, considering the wind, or even distance - simply hitting without even checking the GPS. I love competing - but I dont want to compete - even in a general play sense - every round I play.


I think the above is much of what accounts for the difference between our handicap culture and the American WHS and card every round culture. Their HIs are higher as a result. I am still of the mindset that my HI should be based to rounds where I tried to play my best.

Spot on this is me also.

But WHS is trying to make everything card in hand every round.
That might work in mild climates but not in the UK.

 

[Deleted member 35504]

... American WHS and card every round culture. Their HIs are higher as a result...

You've waffled yourself into the complete opposite of the truth there.

It's well documented that before the WHS came in, the over-riding belief of UK golfers who'd played with any yanks was that the latter had a massively LOWER HI than they should.

One of the results of the introduction of the WHS was that it's given UK golfers a much fairer chance of getting into elite amateur events where there's a handicap index ballot.

 

[IanM]

It's well documented that before the WHS came in, the over-riding belief of UK golfers who'd played with any yanks was that the latter had a massively LOWER HI than they should.

Yes, but I never saw the numbers on a screen, that's what they told me in the bar.
They also say they shot 79, but playing properly, they didn't break 100.

 

[woofers]

Which goes against what EG would like which is if there's no reason to not put a card in...put a card in...

Do EG actually say this?

 

[2blue]

I have 3 modes of playing I guess, and enjoy them each in their own way.
Competition rounds are the only ones where I could say I truly try to make a good score, and play by the rules.
Other rounds are either, friendly rounds where the walk and chat and bit of light rivalry is the purpose (score itself borderline irrelevant), or, ones I see as practice rounds with the goal of pushing the boundaries and improving. Both will be more lax with the rules, with a goal of just playing on, maybe not looking for a ball at all, or looking for longer than 3 mins and playing it if we find it if we are held up anyway. I will try shots I would not make in a counting round, and will probably have jumped straight from car to first tee shot possibly without even a single loosener swing. I will try a fairway wood over the stream, or a flop shot. Its fun. But not to be done if trying to produce a best score. I will be experimenting with technique. In a card round, I dont, but focus on the shot. Its mainly a mindset thing. I will take less care with shot choice, considering the wind, or even distance - simply hitting without even checking the GPS. I love competing - but I dont want to compete - even in a general play sense - every round I play.


I think the above is much of what accounts for the difference between our handicap culture and the American WHS and card every round culture. Their HIs are higher as a result. I am still of the mindset that my HI should be based to rounds where I tried to play my best.

So whilst you continue to protect your 'Match-head on' HI you'll find that folk with a far more rounded 'HI for all occasions' are leaving you behind competitively. It's recreational, remember.
If you're playing to the rules..... stick the cards in like the majority do...... leisure golf with gimmies & free drops, then you can't!

 

[Crow]

I have no intention of putting general play cards in, like others I don't play the same mindset as in a comp.

I play over 20 comps a year so am happy that my HI is accurate.

I don't like the idea of "current form" being your handicap but prefer the old "potential form" concept.

 

[wjemather]

I have no intention of putting general play cards in, like others I don't play the same mindset as in a comp.

I play over 20 comps a year so am happy that my HI is accurate.

I don't like the idea of "current form" being your handicap but prefer the old "potential form" concept.

You'd have to be talking about the pre-1983 system for potential to be relevant.

 

[Crow]

You'd have to be talking about the pre-1983 system for potential to be relevant.

That's where I live.

 

[SteveJay]

If you're playing to the rules..... stick the cards in like the majority do...... leisure golf with gimmies & free drops, then you can't!

I don't think the majority do though, certainly not in my circles. GP play cards are far from common when playing outside of competitions.

 

[Backsticks]

How can a competition card from 18 months ago reflect current form?

Thats a different question. Applies equally to a GP score from 18 months ago. They have no concerns about how aged any counting scores are.