England Golf and General Play Scores

[Crazyface]

I was going to start a new thread but found this one. This got over technical, like some threads do, but my question is this and to do with Open comps. Some courses are demanding x number of your scores must be in club comps to qualify for prizes, what if people don't like to play in comps, but do put in regular honest general play scores. Surely this is acceptable? The wife does not play in singles comps. But her HC is now down from 36 to 27. She does not purlt in scores early season, as these are usually horrendous but once her swing is back she puts scores in. She wants her HC to come down, and hates it when it goes even slightly up! This is what WHS was brought in for. To actually ask for club comp scores to be in the players tally of scores is actually pointless, as four or so scores make hardly any difference to a fully made up total of twenty. All scores in open comps should be recorded and entered on to players records. Although, with WHS, this won't make much of a dent in inflated hcs

 

[2blue]

I was going to start a new thread but found this one. This got over technical, like some threads do, but my question is this and to do with Open comps. Some courses are demanding x number of your scores must be in club comps to qualify for prizes, what if people don't like to play in comps, but do put in regular honest general play scores. Surely this is acceptable? The wife does not play in singles comps. But her HC is now down from 36 to 27. She does not purlt in scores early season, as these are usually horrendous but once her swing is back she puts scores in. She wants her HC to come down, and hates it when it goes even slightly up! This is what WHS was brought in for. To actually ask for club comp scores to be in the players tally of scores is actually pointless, as four or so scores make hardly any difference to a fully made up total of twenty. All scores in open comps should be recorded and entered on to players records. Although, with WHS, this won't make much of a dent in inflated hcs

Not happy playing in Club Comps but happy to enter Opens & expect to be eligible for prizes.... mmmmmm?

 

[Backsticks]

Not happy playing in Club Comps but happy to enter Opens & expect to be eligible for prizes.... mmmmmm?

Yes. I think its perfectly reasonable to stipulate, that to play in open competition, HI should be based on a certain proportion of home club competition cards. 4 seems light even. 10 minimum of the 20 or so I think I would prefer.

 

[Imurg]

It's been said before but what of those who are unable to play in many comps for whatever reason.?
Some may not be available when comps are played, some, like me, play 5 or 6 times a week and put a card in most days.
If I had to have 10 competition cards in my 20 I'd have to play a comp almost every other day and we don't have that many comps..plus , unless I'm winning, at a fiver a time it gets a tad expensive....
Golf is golf. Play it the same way when you have a card in your hand regardless of whether it's a comp or a GP....
Play your best.
Shouldn't be any different

 

[Backsticks]

I think there does need to be some comp scores in someone’s past 20

10 is a bit silly but 3 would seem a reasonable amount

But no one imo should be able to enter opens without any comp scores on their handicap record - that’s the perfect example of some imo looking to manipulate handicap and then looking at opens to pick prizes

Maybe rather than in the 20, within a calander period. But any solution is messy, as we are trying to compare apples and oranges. Competition rounds, with casual rounds. Quite apart from the question of casual rounds being an easier route to manipulation, they dont necessarily correlate to ones fair handicap in competitive round.
Maybe its time for...bifurcatuon. Separate competition handicaps based on competition rounds, and, casual handicaps basesld from your history of casual rounds.
Keeps the competition specialist happy - back to effectively what we had during UHS. Competition HIs uncontaminatable with casual rounds. And curtailing the ease of manipulation at least back to what it was.
And a casual HI for those who want that. Even Americans style if you want, with mulligans, gimmes, and whatever manipulation is appropriate to the golf circle you play in : unchanging fourball buddies playing for pints, works society, etc.

 

[wjemather]

People and clubs thinking that stipulating a minimum number of competition scores has any effect on eliminating dodgy handicaps are kidding themselves. It's nothing but a blunt tool that only serves to exclude people with legitimate handicaps and give people (who don't know any better) a false sense of security. There is simply no substitute for handicap committees doing their jobs properly, with the assistance of all players (by reporting suspect activity to their committee).

 

[Deleted member 35504]

Maybe rather than in the 20, within a calander period. But any solution is messy, as we are trying to compare apples and oranges. Competition rounds, with casual rounds. Quite apart from the question of casual rounds being an easier route to manipulation, they dont necessarily correlate to ones fair handicap in competitive round.
Maybe its time for...bifurcatuon. Separate competition handicaps based on competition rounds, and, casual handicaps basesld from your history of casual rounds.
Keeps the competition specialist happy - back to effectively what we had during UHS. Competition HIs uncontaminatable with casual rounds. And curtailing the ease of manipulation at least back to what it was.
And a casual HI for those who want that. Even Americans style if you want, with mulligans, gimmes, and whatever manipulation is appropriate to the golf circle you play in : unchanging fourball buddies playing for pints, works society, etc.

I'm yet to work out if this is a funny parody account or the author is stark raving bonkers.

 

[Backsticks]

No handicap committee wants to do its job properly if it is too much work.

No player (rarest exceptions will prove the rule) wants to report suspect behaviour. Nobody wants the grief. Humans abhor a snitch.

Even handicap committees avoid tacking much of what they know is wrong, and they are the ones ostensibly granted authority to do just that. Joe Golfer certainly wants nothing to do with being part of such vigilatism, and the expectation for any governing body that this is expected is seriously misjudging the reality of amateur golf.

 

[IanM]

People and clubs thinking that stipulating a minimum number of competition scores has any effect on eliminating dodgy handicaps is kidding themselves. It's nothing but a blunt tool that only serves to exclude people with legitimate handicaps and give people a false sense of security. There is simply no substitute for handicap committees doing their jobs properly, with the assistance of all players (by reporting suspect activity to their committee).

All completely correct.

I also think folk should be kind to animals and not murder or steal.

 

[Crazyface]

Not happy playing in Club Comps but happy to enter Opens & expect to be eligible for prizes.... mmmmmm?

I can see that there might be a problem with this, but we play as a couple in mixed comps. Just like we play together in general play. See the difference? She's actually not that keen on the open comps either. I push her to play, as it get me a game on nice courses.This can come at a price, as we've played with some, not many, horrible people.

 

[Crazyface]

People and clubs thinking that stipulating a minimum number of competition scores has any effect on eliminating dodgy handicaps are kidding themselves. It's nothing but a blunt tool that only serves to exclude people with legitimate handicaps and give people (who don't know any better) a false sense of security. There is simply no substitute for handicap committees doing their jobs properly, with the assistance of all players (by reporting suspect activity to their committee).

Exactly!

 

[Viewer]

It's been said before but what of those who are unable to play in many comps for whatever reason.?
Some may not be available when comps are played, some, like me, play 5 or 6 times a week and put a card in most days.
If I had to have 10 competition cards in my 20 I'd have to play a comp almost every other day and we don't have that many comps..plus , unless I'm winning, at a fiver a time it gets a tad expensive....
Golf is golf. Play it the same way when you have a card in your hand regardless of whether it's a comp or a GP....
Play your best.
Shouldn't be any different

You’re either too honest or a handicap manipulator!

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I think the law of unintended consequences apply.

EG want people to put in cards whenever people play. There are only so many comps per month so the majority will be GP rounds. Especially in winter where a lot of comps are team based. They stress there is no off-season.

Now they want to ensure the number of GP rounds don't get too high!

They should have had a clue from the entries to there elite events from the USA where this system was in place beforehand.

 

[Backsticks]

Some may not be available when comps are played, some, like me, play 5 or 6 times a week and put a card in most days.
If I had to have 10 competition cards in my 20 I'd have to play a comp almost every other day and we don't have that many comps.

Or, dont put in cards for some of the non competition days ?

 

[Backsticks]

EG want people to put in cards whenever people play.

What is their rationale for this ? I dont want to be a bandit. If I put in cards for non competitive rounds my HI would be 5-10 shots higher. Then when I play in a competition and win it by 10, people would say I am a handicap manipulating cheat. So I play honestly, and dont put in GP cards.

 

[LizAig]

I was going to start a new thread but found this one. This got over technical, like some threads do, but my question is this and to do with Open comps. Some courses are demanding x number of your scores must be in club comps to qualify for prizes, what if people don't like to play in comps, but do put in regular honest general play scores. Surely this is acceptable? The wife does not play in singles comps. But her HC is now down from 36 to 27. She does not purlt in scores early season, as these are usually horrendous but once her swing is back she puts scores in. She wants her HC to come down, and hates it when it goes even slightly up! This is what WHS was brought in for. To actually ask for club comp scores to be in the players tally of scores is actually pointless, as four or so scores make hardly any difference to a fully made up total of twenty. All scores in open comps should be recorded and entered on to players records. Although, with WHS, this won't make much of a dent in inflated hcs

For our Majors we ask for 3 qualifying comps in the current year. For Opens we ask for 4 qualifying comps in the previous 12 months….which is nothing!! Scores in GP rounds are not as reliable as those in comps - Not every player plays to the rules for a GP round and Some say less pressure playing GP rather then comp so scores may be better. In a comp you can’t chose not to put in a card because it’s early in the season and you don’t like your score…..you shouldn’t either for a GP but people do which means their handicap isn’t true! It’s is why most clubs insist they must be from comps do because comp scores are more reliable! Having people play in comps also brings in comp fees to our very small ladies section and also helps us get to know new players and help them learn the rules and etiquette.

As a H&C Committee person I think it’s fair to ask for comp scores….and as a player! At our club we have around 15 opportunities to play in qualifying comps before the first major of the season (we play on Thursdays but offer alternates on Saturday for all comps).

 

[LizAig]

People and clubs thinking that stipulating a minimum number of competition scores has any effect on eliminating dodgy handicaps are kidding themselves. It's nothing but a blunt tool that only serves to exclude people with legitimate handicaps and give people (who don't know any better) a false sense of security. There is simply no substitute for handicap committees doing their jobs properly, with the assistance of all players (by reporting suspect activity to their committee).

I don’t think we’re kidding ourselves - we know the cheats and handicap manipulators get through but that doesn’t mean you sit back and have no rules! I hate being on H&C because of all the grief and whining! It’s the worst job in a club by far but someone has to do it and it’s rare anyone volunteers to help!!

 

[backwoodsman]

I'm still wondering why someone whose handicap is based on GP scores - because they don't like playing in competitions - wants to enter a competition?

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm still wondering why someone whose handicap is based on GP scores - because they don't like playing in competitions - wants to enter a competition?

Money and Prizes.!

 

[IanM]

Money and Prizes.!

I assumed he was bring facetious!

But yep.