Changes to WHS in April 2024

[Swango1980]

1. Did you think that I had typed something that I thought was deliberately wrong?
If so, you were mistaken.
But don't worry about it.

2. Glad you agree.

3. I do.

OK. I've no idea what point you were trying to make then? This debate is more confusing than WHS could ever be

 

[D-S]

Me 4.3

Painswick yellows 1
My course yellows 4
My course whites 6
Woodhall Hotchkin blues 8

"What handicap do you play off?" from a non-golfer.
Answer, "Oh, anything from 1 to 8 depending on where I'm playing."

Sounds about right knowing the relatively difficulty of Painswick and the Hotchkin.

Having the same amount of shots at both seems nonsensical.

No idea how hard or easy your course is but most will fall in between the likes of Painswick which, though hilly, is pretty short and bunker less and the Hotchkin which is a brute and has some of the toughest bunkering known to man.

I don’t know of anyone who would quote their CH at different courses to a non golfer - this would seem weird.

 

[Genu9]

Nope.
They know their HI and they let the roll-up organiser tell them what they are playing off.
The organiser will decide whether to do the subtracting of 0.9 (or not) on his spreadsheet.

You see, most people view this game of golf as a pastime and hobby. They make their decisions on what they "want" to do and what they "like" to do.
If they don't want to lose a shot by subtracting 0.9 all of a sudden then they ain't gonna do it.
They might come round to the idea in a year or two, but there's nothing compelling them to do it in 12 days time.
Some people get quite a kick from being in charge and making the decisions on "what WE are going to be doing in our group."

Last year I played in a Captain's awayday, best 2 from 4 AmAm, where 85% was ignored. That's "what was decided" by person or persons in charge.
You see, 85% means "losing two shots" to many, so they like the idea of ignoring it.
They do what they "like" not necessarily what is obvious or correct or simple or easy.

That's what happens when you're given a choice. As one person pointed out in an earlier post, you should only have ONE handicap. We now have 'Aw guys, please yourself as long as it's one way or the other, as outlined in our confusing definition of what your PH should be depending on if you have mechanical precision to hand, or not'.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

That's what happens when you're given a choice. As one person pointed out in an earlier post, you should only have ONE handicap. We now have 'Aw guys, please yourself as long as it's one way or the other, as outlined in our confusing definition of what your PH should be depending on if you have mechanical precision to hand, or not'.

View attachment 52465

When did we ever have one handicap?

 

[Voyager EMH]

OK. I've no idea what point you were trying to make then? This debate is more confusing than WHS could ever be

No problem. Sometimes I post facts. Things I've seen or heard etc. Up to the reader to decide if there is a point being made beyond the fact.
Often, I'm not "trying" to make any point, merely making a comment or expressing a view.

If I stated my full name and date of birth, would I be making a point or trying to make a point?
Of course not. It would be factual information, though.

How players have adapted, or failed to fully adapt, to WHS interests me. How they will cope with or react to the forthcoming changes interests me.
I have reported things I have witnessed and tried to fathom why people do what they do, rather than the simpler option of reading their PH from a chart or screen.

I see many people driving at 10mph over the limit in 30 and 40mph zones everyday. This is a reality. People choose to do it. They can see their speedometer just as a golfer might see his Playing Handicap, but both might choose to ignore what they see and do what they want or like to do.
I see the same thing with aspects of WHS in social golf. If people conceive of something that appeals more than the formal or official system, they may choose to do it. Human nature.
Didn't happen quite so much before WHS.
WHS is not the cause of this, however. Speed limits are not the cause of speeding.
It is due to the human desire "to have things how I want them to be" that is at the root. We all have this. Some are better than others at keeping this under reasonable control.

The unrounded CH makes perfect sense to me. I fear that many will view this as an undesirable complication.
Adding or subtracting a figure to this unrounded CH and then applying 95% or 85% to this unrounded figure might seem ridiculous.
OK they won't have to perform these calculations, but describing the changes requires an explanation of this, should they ask for one.
And a significant number will ask. Quite a few won't like what they hear. They might like something simpler, to them, in social golf.

OK that reading PH from a chart or screen for social golf is easy and simple. But that requires acceptance of a system that they have decided they don't like.
They do like creating their own system that makes them happier. This I have observed.
CR-Par in social golf will be another optional thing to be cherry-picked or ignored for a number of recreational golfers.
Desirable when "getting more shots" for scoring more points, undesirable when the other way round.

But it is all up to them. They are "free to agree". I play no part. I merely observe.

 

[Voyager EMH]

When did we ever have one handicap?

When we all played off scratch.

You're welcome.

 

[Viewer]

Me 4.3

Painswick yellows 1
My course yellows 4
My course whites 6
Woodhall Hotchkin blues 8

"What handicap do you play off?" from a non-golfer.
Answer, "Oh, anything from 1 to 8 depending on where I'm playing."

You play off 4.3 don’t you?

 

[Genu9]

You play off 4.3 don’t you?

No. His Index is 4.3. He plays off what the course dictates.

 

[Viewer]

No. His Index is 4.3. He plays off what the course dictates.

4.3 - what I said.

 

[Voyager EMH]

4.3 - what I said.

My HI is 4.3. This is the only thing that is worth telling people when they ask, "What is your handicap?"

If they ask, "What handicap do you play off?"
I play off various handicaps depending on course and format. Could be anything from 1 to 8. This is a truthful and factual answer.

I'm often playing off scratch as well. Did so yesterday. But that needs more explanation about 4 ball betterball matchplay.
I also play in a few scratch comps.

 

[D-S]

My HI is 4.3. This is the only thing that is worth telling people when they ask, "What is your handicap?"

If they ask, "What handicap do you play off?"
I play off various handicaps depending on course and format. Could be anything from 1 to 8. This is a truthful and factual answer.

I'm often playing off scratch as well. Did so yesterday. But that needs more explanation about 4 ball betterball matchplay.
I also play in a few scratch comps.

Well I guess it stops non golfers ever asking you again.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Well I guess it stops non golfers ever asking you again.

No, it remains one of the most asked questions. My answer makes no difference. I will continue to be asked.
I will say 4.3, if they ask, "What is your handicap."
The same person might ask again a year or two later. My answer will most likely be something different. Higher or lower. Haha.

 

[fenwayrich]

Getting back to the changes being introduced in less than two weeks, does anyone know whether the ISV's (and in particular ClubV1, in which I have very little trust) will be in a position to provide the correct software to manage club competitions in conjuction with the revised Rules of Handicapping on 1st April.

 

[wjemather]

Getting back to the changes being introduced in less than two weeks, does anyone know whether the ISV's (and in particular ClubV1, in which I have very little trust) will be in a position to provide the correct software to manage club competitions in conjuction with the revised Rules of Handicapping on 1st April.

Everything other than the 4BBB comp scores is fairly trivial from a software perspective, so I see no reason why the ISVs won't be ready.

 

[NearHull]

Getting back to the changes being introduced in less than two weeks, does anyone know whether the ISV's (and in particular ClubV1, in which I have very little trust) will be in a position to provide the correct software to manage club competitions in conjuction with the revised Rules of Handicapping on 1st April.

ClubV1 held a webinar yesterday where they were explaining the changes to WHS and how the software user inputs have been updated to incorporate them. One interesting point was that any competitions that have been set up prior to 1Apr, and played after the 1 Apr, will work to the new system.
One change that I thought useful, was the ability to select/deselect individual holes if the competition is being played on less than 18 holes.

 

[fenwayrich]

ClubV1 held a webinar yesterday where they were explaining the changes to WHS and how the software user inputs have been updated to incorporate them. One interesting point was that any competitions that have been set up prior to 1Apr, and played after the 1 Apr, will work to the new system.
One change that I thought useful, was the ability to select/deselect individual holes if the competition is being played on less than 18 holes.

That's very useful information, thank you. Perhaps I will have to retract my comment about distrust in ClubV1. Hopefully the webinar will soon be made available on YouTube.

 

[NearHull]

That's very useful information, thank you. Perhaps I will have to retract my comment about distrust in ClubV1. Hopefully the webinar will soon be made available on YouTube.

I believe that it will be made available today on ClubV1. There were two parts to the presentation, the first was a gentleman explaining some of the changes to WHS, whilst he was correct in what he said , it was in far too much detail given the intended audience’s knowledge. The second presentation went through the changes to the competition wizard. It wasn’t the most riveting presentation I have sat through - the presenters would benefit from a short course on presenting skills - they appeared to know their stuff but……..

 

[Swango1980]

I believe that it will be made available today on ClubV1. There were two parts to the presentation, the first was a gentleman explaining some of the changes to WHS, whilst he was correct in what he said , it was in far too much detail given the intended audience’s knowledge. The second presentation went through the changes to the competition wizard. It wasn’t the most riveting presentation I have sat through - the presenters would benefit from a short course on presenting skills - they appeared to know their stuff but……..

I think some people would be surprised that most presenters in the workplace are pretty poor. It is not a natural or comfortable skill for many people, despite those people maybe being extremely knowledgeable and respected in the subject they are talking about. Very few people are capable of running a presentation like a TED talk, or match some of the charismatic presenters we see from time to time in work or YouTube. If I was a betting man, a person who is knowledgeable on golf handicaps and/or software, may not be a person who is a charismatic and good presenter

We'll see how the software works come April. Things were unexpectedly poor when WHS initially came out, so hoping it is much better than that. I'm sure it must be, as clearly we are talking about tweaks to the existing system, rather than a whole new system.

 

[rulefan]

ClubV1 held a webinar yesterday where they were explaining the changes to WHS and how the software user inputs have been updated to incorporate them. One interesting point was that any competitions that have been set up prior to 1Apr, and played after the 1 Apr, will work to the new system.
One change that I thought useful, was the ability to select/deselect individual holes if the competition is being played on less than 18 holes.

I gather that they are also introducing a feature I like. It will be mandatory to select your markers name either by PSI or MSI for competitive rounds.

 

[NearHull]

I gather that they are also introducing a feature I like. It will be mandatory to select your markers name either by PSI or MSI for competitive rounds.

Yes, I believe that was included.