Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Well let's hope we don't get fooled again
You better you bet....:clap:
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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You better you bet....:clap:
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
How many friends ( have I really got?).
bobmac
Major Champion
I thought not.
I don't need to give evidence for something I did not say.
You claimed as fact there was no plan so you have the burden of proof.
drdel
Tour Rookie
Barnier's speech this afternoon has rejected May's Chequers Plan still under discussion and to be 'agreed' by Cabinet - This is before its written and/or published!!
Barnier's stance is to reject anything and everything - I don't know why we bother trying to negotiate as he simply refuses to accept the UK is leaving. This stance was predicted by the ex-Greek finance minister in his book and I'm beginning to think he was spot on.
Barnier's stance is to reject anything and everything - I don't know why we bother trying to negotiate as he simply refuses to accept the UK is leaving. This stance was predicted by the ex-Greek finance minister in his book and I'm beginning to think he was spot on.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44747444
he cabinet has reached a "collective" agreement on the basis of the UK's future relationship with the EU after Brexit, Theresa May has said.
Ministers have signed up to a plan to create a free trade area for industrial and agricultural goods with the bloc, based on a "common rule book".
They also backed a customs model No 10 said would be "business friendly".
The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the plan, agreed after a 12-hour meeting, would "anger many Tory Brexiteers".
Our political editor said No 10 hoped the new commitments would unlock the next phase of talks with the rest of the EU but it was not year clear how many, or what kind, of objections were raised.
Downing Street said the proposals marked a "substantial evolution" in the UK's position and would resolve outstanding concerns about the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
"This is a proposal that I believe will be good for the UK and good for the EU, and I look forward to it being received positively," Mrs May told the BBC.
The UK said it now wanted to accelerate the negotiations in an effort to secure an agreement by October, but also warned it will step up preparations for leaving on 29 March 2019 without a deal.
The EU's negotiator Michel Barnier has suggested the EU would be willing to shift its position if the UK relaxed some of its "red lines", but has warned anything that "damaged" the single market would not be acceptable.
The prime minister had gathered her 26 cabinet ministers together at her country residence to try and resolve differences over the shape of the UK's relations with the EU and break the current deadlock with the EU.
The main details of the "Chequers statement" are as follows:
The UK would accept continuing "harmonisation" with EU rules on the trade in goods, covering only those necessary to ensure frictionless trade
Parliament would have the final say over how these rules are incorporated into UK law, retaining the right to refuse to do so
There will be different arrangements for trade in services, including financial products, with greater "regulatory flexibility" and "strong reciprocal arrangements"
Freedom of movement as it stands will come to an end but a "mobility framework" will ensure UK and EU citizens can continue to travel to each other's territories and apply for study and work
A new customs arrangement will be phased in, with the goal of "a combined customs territory"
The UK will be able to control its own tariffs and develop an independent trade policy
The jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will end but the UK will pay regard to its decisions in areas where common rules were in force.
Mrs May said this was an "important step" in the process of negotiating the UK's smooth exit from the EU.
"Of course we still have work to do with the EU in ensuring that we get to that end point in October. But this is good we have come today, following our detailed discussions, to a positive future for the UK," she said.
She said the proposals, to be formally published in a white paper next week, would give the UK the freedom to strike trade deals with other countries while maintaining regulatory, environmental and consumer standards.
There is no mention in the document of either the single market or the customs union, which the UK has committed to leave after the end of a transition period in December 2020.
Under plans for a free trade zone, the UK would be committed legally to following EU law for a large part of the economy, including manufacturing and farming.
While Parliament would retain the right to diverge from EU regulations in these areas, the document makes clear that "choosing not to pass the relevant legislation would have consequences for market access, security co-operation or the frictionless border".
The document also commits the government to step up preparedness for a no-deal scenario, as one of a range of possible outcomes, "given the short period remaining before the necessary conclusion of negotiations".
he cabinet has reached a "collective" agreement on the basis of the UK's future relationship with the EU after Brexit, Theresa May has said.
Ministers have signed up to a plan to create a free trade area for industrial and agricultural goods with the bloc, based on a "common rule book".
They also backed a customs model No 10 said would be "business friendly".
The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the plan, agreed after a 12-hour meeting, would "anger many Tory Brexiteers".
Our political editor said No 10 hoped the new commitments would unlock the next phase of talks with the rest of the EU but it was not year clear how many, or what kind, of objections were raised.
Downing Street said the proposals marked a "substantial evolution" in the UK's position and would resolve outstanding concerns about the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
"This is a proposal that I believe will be good for the UK and good for the EU, and I look forward to it being received positively," Mrs May told the BBC.
The UK said it now wanted to accelerate the negotiations in an effort to secure an agreement by October, but also warned it will step up preparations for leaving on 29 March 2019 without a deal.
The EU's negotiator Michel Barnier has suggested the EU would be willing to shift its position if the UK relaxed some of its "red lines", but has warned anything that "damaged" the single market would not be acceptable.
The prime minister had gathered her 26 cabinet ministers together at her country residence to try and resolve differences over the shape of the UK's relations with the EU and break the current deadlock with the EU.
The main details of the "Chequers statement" are as follows:
The UK would accept continuing "harmonisation" with EU rules on the trade in goods, covering only those necessary to ensure frictionless trade
Parliament would have the final say over how these rules are incorporated into UK law, retaining the right to refuse to do so
There will be different arrangements for trade in services, including financial products, with greater "regulatory flexibility" and "strong reciprocal arrangements"
Freedom of movement as it stands will come to an end but a "mobility framework" will ensure UK and EU citizens can continue to travel to each other's territories and apply for study and work
A new customs arrangement will be phased in, with the goal of "a combined customs territory"
The UK will be able to control its own tariffs and develop an independent trade policy
The jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will end but the UK will pay regard to its decisions in areas where common rules were in force.
Mrs May said this was an "important step" in the process of negotiating the UK's smooth exit from the EU.
"Of course we still have work to do with the EU in ensuring that we get to that end point in October. But this is good we have come today, following our detailed discussions, to a positive future for the UK," she said.
She said the proposals, to be formally published in a white paper next week, would give the UK the freedom to strike trade deals with other countries while maintaining regulatory, environmental and consumer standards.
There is no mention in the document of either the single market or the customs union, which the UK has committed to leave after the end of a transition period in December 2020.
Under plans for a free trade zone, the UK would be committed legally to following EU law for a large part of the economy, including manufacturing and farming.
While Parliament would retain the right to diverge from EU regulations in these areas, the document makes clear that "choosing not to pass the relevant legislation would have consequences for market access, security co-operation or the frictionless border".
The document also commits the government to step up preparedness for a no-deal scenario, as one of a range of possible outcomes, "given the short period remaining before the necessary conclusion of negotiations".
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Foxholer
Blackballed
Perhaps YOU should also state where SILH actually stated that his OPINION was FACT
A bit of 'consistency' would not go amiss imo!
Nor would the concept of 'play the argument, not the man'! (Again...imo!).
U
User62651
Guest
Where did you read, see or hear that? Got a link?
Just that the main news media reporting him as saying various things and that he's keen to see the white paper with the detail but no mention of rejection as you claim. He is quoted below -
"Time is short. We need to quickly have realistic and workable solutions and obviously we look forward to the UK's White Paper.
"The UK's proposals will facilitate both the UK's internal political debate and negotiation with us.
"Our objective has always been to find an agreement with the UK, not against the UK."
bobmac
Major Champion
Did you read post no.39?
Are you the referee or forum Police on the discussion between Hogie and Bobmac, or are you being your usual pedantic self...
BTW, Nice to see only two exclamation marks for a change, although it was a very short post. Keep it up...
Foxholer
Blackballed
I did indeed - and the 1st 3 words of each paragraph of SILH's post that you quoted are significant and, at least to me, indicate that neither was a 'statement of fact'!
You are hardly one to comment on punctuation! At least mine is grammatically correct. Why do you use 3 full-stops instead of the 'proper' mark?
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bobmac
Major Champion
Deary me.
I'm out
I'm out
Well, you’ve now confirmed the obvious, you’re thick.
3 full stops are called an ellipsis. It’s done to let the reader understand the contextual manner of the sentence, and for them to fill in the obvious gaps.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Im struggling to stop laughing at you... nice one Foxy.
Don’t forget to wipe the egg off your face.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Yep! I know what an ellipsis is/is/can be used for (and have used it many times), but you seem to have completed the sentence anyway (possibly minus a ? or !)! So what have you left off?
Please fill in the 'obvious gaps' then! I'd like to be able to truly read and understand ALL you intended posting!
Anyway...Back to Topic...
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
And so today we read Dan Hodges (strong Leaver) writing in the Mail on Sunday (hardly Remain supporting) - telling us how on Friday the kamikaze Brexiteers (his description) ran into a brick wall called Reality. The reality that May laid out - that there is nowhere near a majority for a hard Brexit in parliament; that there is no way to circumvent the NI/EU border issues; that a no-deal Brexit will be disastrous for the UK economy - which the government's own analysis had UK facing a hit of 15% on the GDP.
And the spineless kamikaze Brexiteers in the cabinet fold; principled stances chucked out of the Chequers window in self-serving self-preservation - that cannot hide behind the assertions of their acolytes that fighting May's proposals from the inside is better than from the outside, well they would say that wouldn't they. Well as Hodges writes - the kamikaze Brexiteers demanded that May stands up strong against those who would undermine her negotiations - well she has done just that...perhaps they should have been more careful over what they had wished for
And a 'May-supportive' MoS leader finishes with a reassurance that - well at least the UK is leaving the EU - the one thing that was on the ballot paper - quite.
Meanwhile whilst all this goes on, the first murmerings of a demand for a people's vote on the proposed deal are to be heard - and of course we know where that is coming from - yes - the constituency of the very angry and disaffected Leave voters. The New Moaners demanding a people's vote and praying that the EU will reject May's proposals. Oh the supreme irony.
And the spineless kamikaze Brexiteers in the cabinet fold; principled stances chucked out of the Chequers window in self-serving self-preservation - that cannot hide behind the assertions of their acolytes that fighting May's proposals from the inside is better than from the outside, well they would say that wouldn't they. Well as Hodges writes - the kamikaze Brexiteers demanded that May stands up strong against those who would undermine her negotiations - well she has done just that...perhaps they should have been more careful over what they had wished for
And a 'May-supportive' MoS leader finishes with a reassurance that - well at least the UK is leaving the EU - the one thing that was on the ballot paper - quite.
Meanwhile whilst all this goes on, the first murmerings of a demand for a people's vote on the proposed deal are to be heard - and of course we know where that is coming from - yes - the constituency of the very angry and disaffected Leave voters. The New Moaners demanding a people's vote and praying that the EU will reject May's proposals. Oh the supreme irony.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Unfortunately this is not the view of many who voted to leave - they want out - out now - no transition - WTO rules - take the hit however long that might be and no matter how hard it is.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Pity the government did listen to you then...
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
As you know May is/was a remainer,as was 60% of the party( that baffled me if I'm honest)
Yet people seem to see it as a Tory Plan ...it's not..they are doing what a democratic vote has told themto do.
Whats happening now is no surprise to me ,we're a nation of whingers,a great country,but a fair share of moaners nonetheless.....and from what I see mainly on the Left of politics...
To be an MP sometimes you have to go along with things you don't totally agree with..........
Hence democracy...Argue,discuss...resolve...that's whats happening now,but the
doom mongers/whingers like to call it just arguing and don't understand the process.
Personally I'm all for MPs of the same party disagreeing...
I'm a Tory but the day they all agree with each other is the day I'm gone.....
Vote together at the end by all means....but go thru the "Process"
I was ready for this crap as was May..there's a whole heap of people even MPs who want it to be a shambles,and call it a shambles even if it's not,purely because it's the Torys trying to implement
it.....what can you do .....
We are in a strong position the EU need us more than we need them IMO.....
France and Germany would both leave if there was a public vote,it's just a little group
of Euro MPs that are keeping it from falling apart.....it's a dated stupid interfering limitating body,
that needs to be scrapped.....and we're well out of it..
Yet people seem to see it as a Tory Plan ...it's not..they are doing what a democratic vote has told themto do.
Whats happening now is no surprise to me ,we're a nation of whingers,a great country,but a fair share of moaners nonetheless.....and from what I see mainly on the Left of politics...
To be an MP sometimes you have to go along with things you don't totally agree with..........
Hence democracy...Argue,discuss...resolve...that's whats happening now,but the
doom mongers/whingers like to call it just arguing and don't understand the process.
Personally I'm all for MPs of the same party disagreeing...
I'm a Tory but the day they all agree with each other is the day I'm gone.....
Vote together at the end by all means....but go thru the "Process"
I was ready for this crap as was May..there's a whole heap of people even MPs who want it to be a shambles,and call it a shambles even if it's not,purely because it's the Torys trying to implement
it.....what can you do .....
We are in a strong position the EU need us more than we need them IMO.....
France and Germany would both leave if there was a public vote,it's just a little group
of Euro MPs that are keeping it from falling apart.....it's a dated stupid interfering limitating body,
that needs to be scrapped.....and we're well out of it..
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Andrew Marr: Is this what people voted for?
Michael Gove: Yes
Job's a good 'un then. Over to the EU.
Michael Gove: Yes
Job's a good 'un then. Over to the EU.
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U
User62651
Guest
Gove is a skilled politician, very capable and arguably gets more done than any minister in whichever dept he heads up but he is also hungry to ascend and will use any means to get there. Seems like Brexiteers are quickly looking beyond Gove and Boris now as their man after Friday's soft brexit agreement/climbdown from both, didn't have the cahones to make a stand and walk.
Jacob Rees Mogg has principles at least and I think that will stand him in good stead going forward with the Tory right. Expect him to be party leader within 5 years.
Jacob Rees Mogg has principles at least and I think that will stand him in good stead going forward with the Tory right. Expect him to be party leader within 5 years.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Listen to Iain Dale (who has been a Tory candidate for Westminster and who is a staunch but realistic Brexiteer and is oft on Newsnight) on LBC explain why Rees-Mogg will never be leader of the Tory party - well certainly not in the near or foreseeable future. Some of his views are not acceptable to the majority of the Tory party - he just hides them behind a veneer of respectability created by a posh voice and fancy words.
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