Fallacy or Fact

[Slab]

We could google it but where's the fun in that... Post a golf related statement, quote or question and discuss if its true or not

I'll kick off with the Q ; Does rust on wedges actually help/aid backspin on the green?

 

[BrianM]

I'd say yes, otherwise why would people not just give them a wire brush and clean...
I'm not 100% sure though.

 

[Imurg]

We could google it but where's the fun in that... Post a golf related statement, quote or question and discuss if its true or not

I'll kick off with the Q ; Does rust on wedges actually help/aid backspin on the green?

Answer ....No.
The rust appears because the head is not finished with a coating like chrome.
When the finish is added it reduces the depth of the groove by a minute amount.
So an unfinished head has slightly deeper grooves and thus dissipates more debris which improves spin.
Rust can, actually, reduce groove depth by even more, reducing spin.
So you should keep your raw face clear of rust - you can let the rest go as manky as you like but keep the face clean.

 

[Slab]

Answer ....No.
The rust appears because the head is not finished with a coating like chrome.
When the finish is added it reduces the depth of the groove by a minute amount.
So an unfinished head has slightly deeper grooves and thus dissipates more debris which improves spin.
Rust can, actually, reduce groove depth by even more, reducing spin.
So you should keep your raw face clear of rust - you can let the rest go as manky as you like but keep the face clean.

Sounds logical (although I’m sure they could ‘finish’ the face without finishing inside the grooves if they really wanted to)

But wont a finished face and finished groove have exactly the same depth as an unfinished face with unfinished groove
Although, how much of the ball coating actually goes inside the groove to mean a deeper groove depth (above the minimum) would make any difference

 

[Imurg]

Sounds logical (although I’m sure they could ‘finish’ the face without finishing inside the grooves if they really wanted to)

But wont a finished face and finished groove have exactly the same depth as an unfinished face with unfinished groove
Although, how much of the ball coating actually goes inside the groove to mean a deeper groove depth (above the minimum) would make any difference

It's not a big difference but it is there..a few microns is all that's needed to reduce spin.
Anytime you add a coating of anything to a wedge face you're going to reduce the depth of any groove by a small amount.

 

[SteveW86]

The handicap system should be scrapped, gross score should be the only thing that counts

 

[Jimaroid]

I'm going for... It's complicated.

I think the oxide itself will create a lower friction coefficient because it's effectively a loose powdery layer on the surface. But over time the damage done to the surface by the erosion will increase contact surface area (roughness) so might increase friction. Certainly it's true that a an eroded surface will have a higher friction - it is why we all lubricate our engines afterall.

I don't think the grooves make much of a difference other than to increase contact surface area and eject foreign material. It's the rubber to metal friction that needs to exist to create the rotational force for spin.

So my guess is, rusty surface itself will reduce spin but the resulting eroded "clean" metal might have a higher friction over a period of time compared to new. However if the grooves are eroded in such a way to reduce surface area than the probably counteract and result in less friction.

So the answer is yes and no. I imagine you could observe results where spin is both increased and decreased due to rust and that the only consistent way to generate spin is a well controlled, i.e., clean surface.

 

[jim8flog]

The handicap system should be scrapped, gross score should be the only thing that counts

= empty competitions lists

Our club champs (gross score to count) this year had only 14 entrants.

 

[jim8flog]

The WHS does not work

Sorry forgot we have already done that to death.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

= empty competitions lists

Our club champs (gross score to count) this year had only 14 entrants.

Does it ban Juniors from playing in the competition ?

 

[SteveW86]

= empty competitions lists

Our club champs (gross score to count) this year had only 14 entrants.

I bet it still found the best golfer at the club though didnt it?

In my opinion, the people who win should be the best. Unfortunately in an effort to be "inclusive" the handicap system does not reward improvement in actual golfing ability. If people say they play just for fun, then just forget about the handicaps anyway and actually just enjoy yourself going around the course.

And I say this as someone with an index of 10.4, so I never win any gross prizes

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

= empty competitions lists

Our club champs (gross score to count) this year had only 14 entrants.

Why we run a handicap championship in parallel… That said, we all know the one that really matters, and it’s not the one most of us have at least a chance of winning…

 

[Slab]

I bet it still found the best golfer at the club though didnt it?

In my opinion, the people who win should be the best. Unfortunately in an effort to be "inclusive" the handicap system does not reward improvement in actual golfing ability. If people say they play just for fun, then just forget about the handicaps anyway and actually just enjoy yourself going around the course.

And I say this as someone with an index of 10.4, so I never win any gross prizes

While not arbitrary its certainly random though. It just finds the best golfer at that club that day/weekend & only from those that could enter/play that day
12 month Scratch order of merit would get you closer to finding the best golfer

In an effort to fund the club and its comp prizes, clubs need to be inclusive with a handicap system for comps. I'd hazard a guess there's already far more 'just for fun/non comp rounds' being enjoyed, than there are comp rounds. so isn't what you suggest already/always happening

 

[Backsticks]

'Club Fitting' is a scam - but even club 'fitters' themselves have been taken in by it.

F, or, f ?

 

[Backsticks]

I'd say yes, otherwise why would people not just give them a wire brush and clean...
I'm not 100% sure though.

Because they have taken the blue pull. Lots of people doing something doesnt mean doing so is justified.

 

[Orikoru]

I bet it still found the best golfer at the club though didnt it?

In my opinion, the people who win should be the best. Unfortunately in an effort to be "inclusive" the handicap system does not reward improvement in actual golfing ability. If people say they play just for fun, then just forget about the handicaps anyway and actually just enjoy yourself going around the course.

And I say this as someone with an index of 10.4, so I never win any gross prizes

I think there should be more gross competitions through the year (most clubs seem to have 2 or 3 at the most) to give low handicappers a chance of actually winning some comps. But you can't do away with handicaps completely - as @jim8flog said, you'd decimate the number of people entering comps, and a lot would probably give up their membership altogether if they weren't bothering with competitions.

 

[Orikoru]

'Club Fitting' is a scam - but even club 'fitters' themselves have been taken in by it.

F, or, f ?

Disagree with that - but it probably goes over the top in some cases. I think it's worth getting the basics right, such as club stiffness, lie angle. But when it comes to heads, say with drivers for example, all of the major manufacturers driver heads are probably as good as one another now.

 

[Pants]

The grooves are there to get rid of any moisture at contact with the ball - just like the tread on a car tyre. For the best grip in the dry you need slicks/smooth club face.

 

[Pants]

'Club Fitting' is a scam - but even club 'fitters' themselves have been taken in by it.

F, or, f ?

For most handicap golfers, the swing you produce on the day of the fitting while trying to impress the fitter will be completely different to your usual one on the course.

 

[Crazyface]

The handicap system should be scrapped, gross score should be the only thing that counts

Great idea. That removes all club comps from the diary bar one. Oh and all swindles, roll ups the lot.