Fallacy or Fact

[jim8flog]

Does it ban Juniors from playing in the competition ?

No. Best placed junior was 10th

 

[Springveldt]

Putting is more important than driving?


Pulls pin, throws grenade and stands back

I'm going with fallacy. Strokes gained and the PGA Tour money list backs this up.

Top 3 in FedEx money list: Scheffler, Rahm and McIlroy.
Top 3 in putting: Maverick McNealy, Taylor Montgomery, Denny McCarthy.

Rahm is #21, McIlroy is #84 and Scheffler is #139 in putting.

 

[Orikoru]

Except for Spieth at his best, True

I knew that would be the name people said - I'd argue he's more streaky than good though. He'll hole more than his fair share of 20 footers but then go and miss from 3.

 

[Orikoru]

I guess a definition of "truly great putter" is needed here....
Jack
Tiger
?

Guys who were known to be great putters - Faxon, Crenshaw, Tiger of course. Seve. In modern times I'd say Cam Smith. Seems like all the people who were great putters, and all the best putters nowadays, seem to use a pretty standard grip. The guys using claws and armlocks and whatnot have only turned to that because putting is a problem for them.

 

[jim8flog]

Why we run a handicap championship in parallel… That said, we all know the one that really matters, and it’s not the one most of us have at least a chance of winning…

We have a handicap champ run part concurrently with the gross. The first round of the handicap is for all players the day before.

On teh second day it then goes gross, this round counting as the second round for those also in the handicap, second round of the handicap followed by second round gross.

It is done like that so those playing in the gross do not have to follow high handicap players and all players finish their rounds at a reasonable time for the presentations to be made.

 

[jim8flog]

.
Watson won when Nicklaus was fading out, and apart from Seve, there wasnt really any other multi major winning level golfers for over a decade.
Etc.

Fallacy.

and that is why Nicklaus won The Open the following year after their great duel and the Masters at age 46

 

[Jimaroid]

I'm going to have to go with fact on this one - not sure about carry, but I feel like if I hit a draw (*cough* hook *cough*) it will bounce and roll out further for more distance (and hence I miss further left than right)

It’s an often overheard statement that draws go further. But it’s a fallacy, there is no reason a ball launched left instead of right (right handed player) goes further. The flight path is merely an observable output, a ball will happily go just as far with a fade as it will with a draw. You just need to give it the same input conditions on a different axis.

 

[SteveJay]

There wouldnt have to be less comps, just the format would always be lowest score wins.

Theres an argument that anyone who is below an index of about 8 is always playing it as a medal anyway.

And it would mean that golf falls in line with practically every other sport on the planet, whereby the best player on the day wins .

For all those higher handicappers who moan.....there is an answer, again applied to all other sports, practice, train and get better!!!!

 

[Orikoru]

It’s an often overheard statement that draws go further. But it’s a fallacy, there is no reason a ball launched left instead of right (right handed player) goes further. The flight path is merely an observable output, a ball will happily go just as far with a fade as it will with a draw. You just need to give it the same input conditions on a different axis.

Sure you will tell me I'm wrong, but I always thought (perhaps perpetuating the fallacy) that a draw strike has a touch more topspin*, hence it kicks on upon landing, whereas a fade strike would have a touch of backspin so it sits more when it lands. Like it's not just purely one's left and one's right.

*topspin obviously isn't correct wording as the ball wouldn't get off the ground if that were true I suppose. But I still thought a fade would have slightly more backspin than a draw would.

 

[sjw]

It’s an often overheard statement that draws go further. But it’s a fallacy, there is no reason a ball launched left instead of right (right handed player) goes further. The flight path is merely an observable output, a ball will happily go just as far with a fade as it will with a draw. You just need to give it the same input conditions on a different axis.

Sure, but doing that is very difficult. I would bet decent money that if you got a Tour pro to hit draws and fades, and looked at the spin axis on the ball, they would not be a mirror image of one another. The draw spin axis would be much more horizontal than the fade, which would have more of a backspin component.

They were talking about this on the commentary at the Open - not sure to whom the quote is attributed but it was, "you can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen," or words to that effect. The fade will land more softly and hence not run out as far due to the angle of the spin.

Edit: @Orikoru basically said the same thing

 

[wjemather]

And it would mean that golf falls in line with practically every other sport on the planet, whereby the best player on the day wins .

For all those higher handicappers who moan.....there is an answer, again applied to all other sports, practice, train and get better!!!!

There aren't many sports that pit the elite against the weak.
Participants either compete against others of similar ability or there is handicapping - golf is far from alone in this regard.

 

[Whereditgo]

Sure you will tell me I'm wrong, but I always thought (perhaps perpetuating the fallacy) that a draw strike has a touch more topspin*, hence it kicks on upon landing, whereas a fade strike would have a touch of backspin so it sits more when it lands. Like it's not just purely one's left and one's right.

*topspin obviously isn't correct wording as the ball wouldn't get off the ground if that were true I suppose. But I still thought a fade would have slightly more backspin than a draw would.

The ball is spinning backwards in both cases, the axis has tilted one way or the other.

It's more likely that a draw shapes shot goes further because the club has been de-lofted through impact, given the same launch conditions, they would travel the same.

 

[Whereditgo]

Which would be fabulous for you good, low handicap guys for a few weeks.
Then the really good, scratch golfers would realise what's going on and start turning up to win everything.
Then the low handicap golfers would start clamouring for some kind of system that makes it more fair for them.

Yeah, but we could then introduce a handicapping system.........oh hang on

 

[Orikoru]

The ball is spinning backwards in both cases, the axis has tilted one way or the other.

It's more likely that a draw shapes shot goes further because the club has been de-lofted through impact, given the same launch conditions, they would travel the same.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say with the last part.

That's a great point, if you've hit a draw, particularly if by accident, you've potentially shut the face a tad and taken loft off the club, hence it goes further. Likewise with opening the face on a fade and adding loft.

 

[Jimaroid]

The ball is spinning backwards in both cases, the axis has tilted one way or the other.

It's more likely that a draw shapes shot goes further because the club has been de-lofted through impact, given the same launch conditions, they would travel the same.

Yep, pretty much but it’s still possible to hit a fade and draw with the same loft. People have for many years in golf misattributed an output observation with an input condition.

A scary thought; people walked on the moon before they/we got golf physics right.

 

[sjw]

Yep, pretty much but it’s still possible to hit a fade and draw with the same loft. People have for many years in golf misattributed an output observation with an input condition.

A scary thought; people walked on the moon before they/we got golf physics right.

We see the output conditions because of the input conditions. If Tour pros (I'm using them as the gold standard) hit their draws the same distance as their fades, I'd agree with you, but I'm pretty sure they don't. If I'm wrong on that and someone wants to correct me then feel free

Phrased differently, the claim is not "a ball spinning to the left goes further than a ball spinning to the right." The claim is that a draw goes further than a fade and therefore it has to be taken into account how the shot is hit - which is likely with a less dynamic loft and/or a closed face. We're not arguing against physics, we're discussing golf shots.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted something you're saying.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

St Andrews is the home of golf.

 

[Jimaroid]

We see the output conditions because of the input conditions. If Tour pros (I'm using them as the gold standard) hit their draws the same distance as their fades, I'd agree with you, but I'm pretty sure they don't. If I'm wrong on that and someone wants to correct me then feel free

You only need to watch John Rahm.

 

[SteveW86]

Mia Baker is an asset to mainstream golf coverage

 

[Springveldt]

Guys who were known to be great putters - Faxon, Crenshaw, Tiger of course. Seve. In modern times I'd say Cam Smith. Seems like all the people who were great putters, and all the best putters nowadays, seem to use a pretty standard grip. The guys using claws and armlocks and whatnot have only turned to that because putting is a problem for them.

Can't believe you didn't name the #1 Greg in the world, Greg Chalmers. Apparently he's #1 Strokes Gained: Putting overall in the Shot Link era.

I didn't even know the guy existed until he started doing the Hack It Out Golf podcast with Crossfield and Lou Stagner but I'm glad he did as he's brilliant to listen to.