Fallacy or Fact

[Deleted member 29109]

Links courses are the best - fallacy

 

[Orikoru]

Can't believe you didn't name the #1 Greg in the world, Greg Chalmers. Apparently he's #1 Strokes Gained: Putting overall in the Shot Link era.

I didn't even know the guy existed until he started doing the Hack It Out Golf podcast with Crossfield and Lou Stagner but I'm glad he did as he's brilliant to listen to.

Err, yea.. no idea who that is. Have just looked on YT and he does seem to be standard gripping as well.

 

[Crow]

It’s an often overheard statement that draws go further. But it’s a fallacy, there is no reason a ball launched left instead of right (right handed player) goes further. The flight path is merely an observable output, a ball will happily go just as far with a fade as it will with a draw. You just need to give it the same input conditions on a different axis.

To achieve the same strike conditions in order to prove this you just need to ask a right handed and a left handed golfer to hit a draw, one will move right to left and one left to right but the result should be the same.
And to doubly prove it, then ask them to hit a fade!

In practice the draw goes further due to the delofting of the club head combined with the more beneficial spin axis.

 

[Backsticks]

Yeah that's what I was trying to say with the last part.

That's a great point, if you've hit a draw, particularly if by accident, you've potentially shut the face a tad and taken loft off the club, hence it goes further. Likewise with opening the face on a fade and adding loft.

Thats comparing a delofted club with a not delofted club, not the draw parameter itself, which is the F or F question.

 

[Backsticks]

St Andrews is the home of golf.

St Andrews is a great golf course. F or F ?

 

[Orikoru]

Thats comparing a delofted club with a not delofted club, not the draw parameter itself, which is the F or F question.

I figured the conclusion was, draw spin doesn't automatically make the ball travel further than fade spin. But the way someone hits a draw and fade does.

 

[Backsticks]

There aren't many sports that pit the elite against the weak.
Participants either compete against others of similar ability or there is handicapping - golf is far from alone in this regard.

It works because there is an intrinsic decoupling mechanism - the course. Your play is isolated from your opponents, by honest broker, the course, making it practical to play against different abilities.

 

[Backsticks]

Onl

I figured the conclusion was, draw spin doesn't automatically make the ball travel further than fade spin. But the way someone hits a draw and fade does.

Only if they use the same club. Which is then not isolating fade/draw with all other parameters the same.
I think the scientific answer is that a draw does not go further than a fade.

 

[Orikoru]

There aren't many sports that pit the elite against the weak.
Participants either compete against others of similar ability or there is handicapping - golf is far from alone in this regard.

It works because there is an intrinsict decoupling mechanism - the course. You play is isolated from your opponents, by honest broker, the course, making it practical to play against different abilities.

Potentially an interesting thought - perhaps in a world without handicaps in golf, it may work in a sort of league system. A bit like the divisions we have now, but if you continually score well in division 2, say, you earn promotion to division 1. Hence the high handicappers (perhaps renamed 'high scorers' in this universe), would still have a reason to enter and compete as they look to earn promotion from division 3/4.

 

[Imurg]

St Andrews is a great golf course. F or F ?

St Andrews isn't a golf course.....

 

[Orikoru]

Onl

Only if they use the same club. Which is then not isolating fade/draw with all other parameters the same.
I think the scientific answer is that a draw does not go further than a fade.

What? Are you trying to argue on the basis that a fade with a 7 iron goes further than a draw with a pitching wedge ergo it's a fallacy?

 

[Backsticks]

What? Are you trying to argue on the basis that a fade with a 7 iron goes further than a draw with a pitching wedge ergo it's a fallacy?

I am saying that if you are comparing the distance of a draw and a fade, on the basis of it drawing or fading ALONE, then you cannot add or take loft from the club. You must assess the diatance of a drawing ball with a 25deg dynamic loft for example, with a fading ball hit with a 25deg dynamic loft. Not change the curve, and the loft, which distorts the tests.

 

[Backsticks]

St Andrews isn't a golf course.....

I mean the one where they play The British Open...

 

[Neilds]

You can tell if a golf ball is soft just by hitting it and feeling the firmness (when you are actually hearing the difference)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Absolute beginners advertise themselves by the way they carry their clubs (n.b does not apply to those who use a trolley). I call them archers…

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Guys who were known to be great putters - Faxon, Crenshaw, Tiger of course. Seve. In modern times I'd say Cam Smith. Seems like all the people who were great putters, and all the best putters nowadays, seem to use a pretty standard grip. The guys using claws and armlocks and whatnot have only turned to that because putting is a problem for them.

Grip is one thing; address when putting is quite another. Have a look at Bobby Locke’s putting and address position…he was talked of as someone who managed to draw his putts (he didn’t really) - but he was one of the greatest with the short stick…and he was a long way from conventional.

 

[Backache]

St Andrews isn't a golf course.....

Isn't it?
www.saintandrewsgolfclub.com

 

[RichA]

I figured the conclusion was, draw spin doesn't automatically make the ball travel further than fade spin. But the way someone hits a draw and fade does.

Anticlockwise spin carries further in the northern hemisphere. Obviously, like water going down the plug hole, the opposite is true in the southern hemisphere, which is why Australians favour a fade.

 

[Backsticks]

There is no such thing as feel.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Absolute beginners advertise themselves by the way they carry their clubs (n.b does not apply to those who use a trolley). I call them archers…

It’s also true that the better the player, the less ‘stuff’ the player will take out onto the course.