Consecutive Par 3's

nickjdavis

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How do folks feel about playing a course (a normal full 18 hole course, par 70 with 5 pars 3's albeit short by most standards at 5900 yds) where there may be consecutive par 3's or even 3 par 3's in 4 holes?

Would it put you off? Would you view the course in a negative light because of this?

We had a par 3 green built a few years ago that was never brought into service. The land it is on was previously woodland where several trees came down in a storm, the land was eventually cleared and a company came in and built a new par 3 green, I believe to demonstrate their prowess at such things. What with all that has gone on in the last few years the hole was never bought into service, but with the club under new management there is a desire to bring this hole into play. There are discussions as to which hole to remove from the course layout. The stretch of holes in question are at the beginning of the back nine and could potentially result in 4 of the 5 pars 3's being on the back nine.


The current layout back nine starts with the 10th (surprise!)....its a short 110yd hole at pretty much the highest elevation of the "far side" of the course. The green is tiny and it plays anything from 7 iron to gap wedge depending on player and wind conditions. The hole does not have a bail out area, trouble lurks everywhere lots of little pot bunkers....its an iconic little hole.

Then we have a short tree lined narrow par 4 of 322yds...a pretty hole if ever there was one with great visuals from the elevated tees.

The 12th is a slightly uphill 172yd hole, its pretty featureless with one small pot bunker front left and a larger rarely visited bunker back right. The only thing to note about the hole is that the green is one of the slopiest on the course and putting from 2ft across the slope can be a nightmare.

The new hole, when a tee is built, has the potential to be roughly 145yds long, with a carry over a lake...the carry is not huge...possibly 80 yards and then a further 65 to the green. This would sit between the existing 12th and the 13th (a 456yd par 4).

The discussions are largely about whether to lose the 10th or 12th hole....losing the 10th would see the course length increase by 30-40yds and wouldn't result in an excessive walk from the 9th to the next hole...but is is an iconic little hole which has wrecked many cards. If we got rid of the 12th then it creates a long walk (close to 400yds mostly uphill) from the 11th to the new hole (which would become the 12th) as well as robbing the course of a little bit of distance...but the hole itself is a bit....meh.

I personally would rather lose the uninspiring 12th than the 10th but acknowledge that the long walk between 11 and the new hole might be off putting for many (indeed I see many complaints around places about any course where you cant just step off one green straight on to the next tee....any walk of more than 50yds seems to be taboo in some circles!!).

I personally have an alternative idea but this would result in keeping the 10th, 12th and the new hole, resulting in three pars 3's in 4 holes.

Just wondered about folks general thoughts about having too many par 3's in a short space of time and how they feel about walks between holes in general.
 

Imurg

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I'd have no problem as long as the holes "fit" into the course and are decent holes....you've got to play them sometime...
My first club extended the 9 hole course to 18 and had 3 par 5s in a row...didn't worry me but some of the seniors kicked up and the routing was changed.
 

srixon 1

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I think Stoneham has three in the space of four holes. Don’t see a problem with it as long as they are proper holes and not fillers.
 

mikejohnchapman

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I never feel comfortable with too many par 3 holes in a short span. It can usually be a real score destroyer if you are a bit off.

Stoneham has a grouping around the turn and I always feel like 1 over in that stretch is a really good score.
 

Neilds

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My home course (Chippenham) has par 3s at 2,4 and 6 to start. All different lengths with different challenges so doesn’t jar
 

HeftyHacker

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Our 14th and 15th are par 3s and, to be honest, it sometimes feels like the designer (James Braid) designed 16 pretty interesting/varied holes before someone reminded him there needed to be 18. 14th up a gentle hill 15th down.

That said, because of prevailing wind conditions at our exposed course, they do play very differently and, in my experience, can be card wreckers.
 

Orikoru

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I wouldn't mind it as long as the holes are very different, i.e. not all similar length. We have two par 3s in a row at ours now - wasn't always the course but they were forced to shorten a short par 4 into a par 3. But the second one of the two is over 200 yards and uphill so it plays very different to the first of the two (downhill 160 odd).
 

Voyager EMH

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My home course (Chippenham) has par 3s at 2,4 and 6 to start. All different lengths with different challenges so doesn’t jar
Scraptoft in Leicestershire is the same. 2nd, 4th and 6th are par 3s.
1st, 3rd and 5th are 436 par 4, 453 par 4 and 577 par 5.
Quite a tough start in medals.

Willesley Park in Ashby-de-la-Zouche has 16th and 17th par 3s.
I always found that interesting in scratch matchplay matches.

Painswick has 3 par 3s in a row. The middle one is a difficult 215 yards.

Don't see any of it as a problem.
They are all golf holes where you have to play golf shots.
 

2blue

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Last year I played in a York Union B/Ball Event with a full field at Halifax West End which has 6 x Par 3's with 4 coming in just 8 holes & lead to a lot of hanging around. Great trad Club but I wouldn't rush back because of this.
 

SteveW86

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I think Stoneham has three in the space of four holes. Don’t see a problem with it as long as they are proper holes and not fillers.

Stoneham does yeah, the first of which is 230 yards. The next hole is my favourite on the course though.

New Forest also has 3 in the space of 4 holes on the back 9.
 

nickjdavis

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If you take the 12th out of play is there room to move the tees for the new hole back a bit?
No not really. The tee for the new hole will effectively be the back of the current 4th tee. The intention is to shorten the 4th which plays 183 yards to a green which is just 8yds wide at the front with water left and long. Its a tough hole with the prevailing wind from off your left requiring a shot out over water. By reducing the 4th to around 165 yds it should make it a lot more playable and less penal.

Attached is a snip from google earth showing the routing of the holes from 9th fairway to 13th tee... (the red dots is the current walk from 12th green to 13th tee)brett.jpg
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Stoke indexing might be interesting for a run of consecutive par 3s or multiple par 3s in a group of not many more holes - all depends on difficulty of each hole in the context of the run, and where the run sits in the course.
 

nickjdavis

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My whispering campaign to the manager and head greenkeeper is to get rid of the 2nd....a 198yd slightly down hill hole with virtually no features or character....carry the bunkers, find the huge green, 2 putt and walk on...

brett3.jpg
 

Bobthesock

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My whispering campaign to the manager and head greenkeeper is to get rid of the 2nd....a 198yd slightly down hill hole with virtually no features or character....carry the bunkers, find the huge green, 2 putt and walk on...

View attachment 51426
What percentage of club golfers can regularly find a green from 198 yards?
In reply to the op I once played a course with 3 consecutive par 3s. They were poor holes though so I didn't like it. If they were all good par 3s it would be great
 

GreiginFife

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Our 3rd is 208 off the whites. A burn runs in front of a steeply two tiered green with a bunker this side of the burn. Treeline tight left with OOB running through the trees. It's a good golf hole but it's tough as boots.
The seniors hate it as some aren't even making the green with a driver.

Much lobbying going on to shorten it by the senior cohort but the GK isn't interested.
 

Bobthesock

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Our 3rd is 208 off the whites. A burn runs in front of a steeply two tiered green with a bunker this side of the burn. Treeline tight left with OOB running through the trees. It's a good golf hole but it's tough as boots.
The seniors hate it as some aren't even making the green with a driver.

Much lobbying going on to shorten it by the senior cohort but the GK isn't interested.
At 208 I bet half of the people can't reach it, senior or not.
Most will still pull out a 3 or 5 wood though as it's a par 3 🤣
 

nickjdavis

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So..as i said...i'd be quite happy to lose the second, even though we would be losing 50 yds off the course length, primarily because it gives future options to extend the first.

The image below shows the first three holes, red arrows indicating current lines of play. By taking the second hole out of play as it is you have the potential to extend the first....playing from the current tee to the second green would result in a par 5 opening hole of around 610yds (currently 490). The second green would need a bit of restructuring so that the bunkering was relevant for an approach shot coming in from a different approach angle and distance but its all something that could go on without any impact to play. Now, I view 600+ yd par 5's with as much disdain as I do 200yd par 3's....so a compromise could be made by building new tees on the first and playing as per the blue line....could be a par 5 of roughly 550yds.

Alternatively (and this is pie in the sky thinking due to costs) there could be the option to build a brand new green in the vicinity of the yellow circle.

There are plans afoot to build new tees for the third, which would add roughly 40yds to the hole with play roughly in the direction of the blue arrows.

Finally, removing the second, would allow an extension to the 18th, with the tee being pushed back by 50yds or so, without risk of being hit from tee shots from the 2nd. Even if the 2nd green is used for the 1st hole the approach will be from "wide right" so wouldnt endanger players on the 18th.brett 4.jpg
 
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